The 100 Greatest Trance Songs

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  1. Energy 52 - Café del Mar (Three 'N One Mix) -This is number one taking into account influence, quality, popularity and pretty much everything else you can think of. What can I say.. this is probably the song which really started it off for me. It is without a doubt The definitive Ibiza anthem and seems to be the song which everybody knows & loves best. It has easily the greatest buildup of all time and a spectacular over the top breakdown. This is simply incredible..
  2. William Orbit - Barbers Adagio for Strings (Ferry Corsten Mix) -This is one of the many remixes of Samuel Barber's legendary Adagio For Strings. Ferry's version is by a long way the best.. He did an amazing job remixing something like this and making it accessible to an entirely new generation. I have listened to this song so many times you wouldn't believe, but still amazes me every time I hear it... Epic trance at it's very finest.
  3. Robert Miles - Children (Dream Version) -This is the most powerful and emotional song in trance. This got notice from all over the world, from radio stations to MTV to the rest.. The reason was that it deserved it. Rarely does a trance song go into mainstream as the genre is mostly underground, but this certainly got the EDM scene some notice. Need I say anything about the song? Just get it! (The Dream Version is a must to appreciate the beauty of this song.)
  4. Faithless - Insomnia (Monster Mix) -Possibly the biggest club tune of all time!! I like Faithless' older stuff a lot and this is the song they will always be remembered for. An extremely dark song with a brilliant mix of rap and the incredible 'keyboard bit'. This song was released in 1995 and got notice in the German dance market.. little did anyone know that this would be one of the most played and popular dance tunes of all time.
  5. Underworld - Born Slippy (Nuxx) -This isn't strictly trance but it was still released in the EDM market. What can I say.. It's a classic.. Everyone has heard this song. It was one of the early successes of the genre and is still played today. Even though I find this a bit frustrating after a few minutes it has that unmistakable opening and is widely regarded as a classic even by people with no interest in electronic music.
  6. Delerium feat. Sarah McLachlan - Silence (Airscape Remix) -I just love to hear this in a club, it is one of those songs which you just can't control youself with. Another powerful song with great vocals summed up with an amazing breakdown. There have been some great mixes of this one- Tiësto's In Search Of Sunrise and Michael Woods' remix being particularly good.
  7. Ian Van Dahl - I Can't Let You Go (Push Vocal Remix) -This is a personal choice.. In my opinion it is M.I.K.E.'s best remix, totally turning this from cheezy dance into pure trance, and making it one of my favourite songs. This is another club anthem with a surreal atmosphere that can just make you lose yourself.
  8. Warrior - If You Want Me (Non Vocal Version) -A lot of you wouldn't have heard this one before but I think the non-vocal version just amazing. You might notice it is similar to Café del Mar in style but somehow brilliant in a different way. This is a real club tune if you've never heard one before, it has that 'energy' that is so hard to produce and impossible to fake. A simply amazing buildup followed by an impressive breakdown. I love this one.
  9. System F - Out of the Blue -Trance music in every sense of the word. This is one of the defining songs of modern trance, a song that everyone knows and loves. 1999 is known as the year of trance and it's not hard to see why with this one. A modern classic.
  10. Push - Strange World -A stunningly good original song of mind-warping progressive trance. This song defines M.I.K.E., typically brilliant, original and great to listen to - it's one of the few songs that is just impossible to get tired of.
  11. Age of Love - Age of Love (Jam & Spoon's Watch Out For Stella Mix)
  12. Humate - Love Stimulation (Paul Van Dyk Lovemix)
  13. Sasha - Xpander
  14. IIO - Rapture (Tastes So Sweet) [Armin van Buuren Remix]
  15. Paul van Dyk - For an Angel
  16. DJ Tiësto - Suburban Train
  17. Three Drives - Greece 2000
  18. Future Sound of London - Papua New Guinea
  19. Binary Finary - 1998 (Paul van Dyk Mix)
  20. Jan Johnson - Flesh (Tiësto Mix)
  21. Chicane - Saltwater (Tomski vs Disco Citizens Mix)
  22. Armin van Buuren - Communication
  23. Push - Universal Nation (Ferry Corsten 99 Mix)
  24. Matt Darey - Liberation
  25. Cygnus X - The Orange Theme
  26. Mauro Picotto - Komodo (Save a Soul Mix)
  27. Plastic Boy - Live Another Life (Non Vocal Version)
  28. Art of Trance - Madagascar (Ferry Corsten Remix)
  29. Lange - I Believe
  30. Nalin & Kane - Beachball
  31. Veracocha - Carte Blanche
  32. Lost Tribe - Gamemaster
  33. Solar Stone - Seven Cities (Stone's Atlantis Mix)
  34. Revelation - Just Be Dub To Me (Original Mix)
  35. The Thrillseekers - Synaesthesia
  36. Tilt - Invisible (Lost Tribe vocal mix)
  37. Quench - Dreams
  38. Rabbit In The Moon - Out Of Body Experience
  39. Andain - Beautiful Things (Elevation Remix)
  40. Agnelli & Nelson - El Nino (Matt Darey Remix)
  41. PPK - Resurection
  42. Darude - Sandstorm
  43. BBE - Seven Days and One Week
  44. Hybrid - Symphony
  45. Ayla - Angelfalls
  46. Push - The Legacy
  47. Faithless - We Come 1
  48. Planet Perfecto - Bullet in the Gun
  49. Paul Oakenfold - Southern Sun (DJ Tiësto Remix)
  50. Paul van Dyk - Nothing But You (Faithless Remix)
  51. Chicane - Offshore
  52. Gouryella - Gouryella
  53. Cygnus X - Superstring
  54. Alex Gold - Foreign Shore
  55. Matt Darey - Beautiful (Pulsar Remix)
  56. Freefall - Skydive (I Feel Wonderful)
  57. Signum - What Ya Got For Me
  58. Balearic Bill - Destination Sunshine (DJ Tiësto dub)
  59. Lost Witness - Happiness Happening (Lange remix)
  60. Salt Tank - Eugina (Michael Woods Mix)
  61. Mansun - Wide Open Space/Supersiffic - Ascension
  62. Jam & Spoon - Stella
  63. Ayla - Ayla (DJ Taucher Mix)
  64. Motorcycle - As the Rush Comes
  65. BT - Flaming June (Paul van Dyk Mix)
  66. Solex - Close to the Edge (Dogzilla vs Michael Woods Remix)
  67. Minimalistix - Close Cover
  68. Sasha & Maria - Be As One
  69. Zombie Nation - Kernkraft 400
  70. Atlantis - Fiji (Cequenza Mix)
  71. Alice Deejay - Better off Alone (Signum Remix)
  72. Mauro Picotto - Lizard (Megavoices Remix)
  73. Watergate - Heart of Asia
  74. Altitude - Tears in the Rain
  75. Nova - All This Love (GTR Remix)
  76. Ascension - For a Lifetime
  77. Sash - Ecuador
  78. DJ Tiësto - Sparkles
  79. Young Parisians - U Write The Rules
  80. Kira - I'll Be Your Angel (Minimalistic Mix No. 1)
  81. Blank & Jones - Cream
  82. CRW feat. Veronika - Like a Cat (Tillmann Uhrmacher Remix)
  83. Gouryella - Tenshi
  84. Rank 1 - Airwave
  85. Mirco De Govia - Epic Monolith
  86. Sunscreem V Push - Please Save Me
  87. Barthezz - On the Move
  88. Solid Globe - North Pole
  89. 4 Strings - Into the Night
  90. Evoke - Arms of Loren 2001 (Ferry Corsten Remix)
  91. Above and Beyond - No One on Earth (Gabriel and Dresden mix)
  92. LSG - Netherworld
  93. Sunday Club - Healing Dream
  94. ATB - 9p.m. (Till I Come)
  95. Faithless - God is a DJ
  96. Labworks - Ibiza Sunrise
  97. Andy Hunter - Go
  98. Scooter - Trance-Atlantic
  99. Anomaly - Calling Your Name
  100. BT - Force of Gravity (Ferry Corsten Mix)
Author Comments: 

Tell us what ya think.. Also be sure to check out darktremor's brilliant (and huge) list!!

Alot of people dislike Born Slippy just to be cool and contrary, but frankly, I love it. I don't, however, see what's so great about Energy 52, maybe I got the wrong version.

Try the Three N One Mix. It's the one everyone knows and loves. There are loads of other good remixes that is why it is such a great song.

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Where's the rest of the EDM? I only see trance and "disputably trance" (ie ambient breaks and the like) on here. You're missing house (!!!), techno, jungle, progressive *, goa, glitch, IDM, funk, disco, microhouse, minimalist, eurodance, EBM, Gabber, Happy Hardcore, "Rave," Acid *, hip-hop, breaks, tribal, big beat, electro, ghetto-tech, miami bass, dancehall ragga, darkstep, industrial, futurepop, NRG (although I'm glad you ignored this), synthpop, acid jazz, abstract, and probably 10000 others. Even trance is not very well represented, this list seems to be mostly anthems, epics, and supersaws, with a bit of prog, dream and ibiza trance. You're missing something like 30 genres of trance. This would be better named "My 50 favorite eurotrance songs."

Anyways, moving on, how did Cafe del Mar start anything off? It wasn't even a hit until 1997-98 with the Three N' One remix, and even the original (unknown, no one listened to it, no DJ played it, no sales or clubplay or anything) version was 1993, long after trance was already an officially established genre, which had already produced a great number of club hits (even a few mainstream ones: Love Simulation (tune of the year in 1992), Stella, Little Fluffy Clouds, Age of Love, most notably, some of which went to number one on the club charts). There were countless trance hits before that point, Cafe Del Mar started nothing. In fact, several of the all-time great Ibiza trance anthems were released years before Cafe Del Mar gained any sort of popularity (ie Beachball, Love Simulation, Stella, Born Slippy, etc.). So, what exactly did this track start? It was popular TEN years after the invention of trance. That's like saying The Rolling Stones invented rock n' roll (and I'm sure many people believe this).

Why such a high placement for Insomnia? It's a great track, but every sound in it had been done and done to death by The KLF long before it's 1995/1996 release. (BTW this song is also pre-Cafe Del Mar, as are the KLF). Why isn't The KLF - 3 AM Eternal mentioned at all, if this has such high placement?

How does Adagio for Strings deserve the number one place? There are more than one and a half minutes undancable minutes in the track. The producers did virtually nothing in creating it, except feed a Samuel Barber orchestral classic into an arpeggiator and a beatbox. Even still it doesn't contain that much energy, it doesn't get a crowd going (I've played it). It's a good closer. That's about all. It did nothing for the genre. Anything enjoyable about this tune was already enjoyable in the original piece. The whole concept is cheap and gimmicky: remixing classical music? Even more: remixing the "anthem of mourning"? It makes no sense: Adagio For Strings is the most played song at funerals, and it's the anthem of Remembrance Day. The whole thing seems like it's designed to evoke tears from over-sensitive and easily manipulated clubbers, in the hopes that they'll mistake this for genuine emotion. NEWSFLASH: YOU'VE BEEN DUPED BY A GIMMICK!!!
Anyways, it's not a terrible track, it's just really not worthy of a number one position, especially considering all the far superior innovative masterpieces that were left out.
Of course, it is your list, and that is your opinion.

Great job with it BTW, glad to see other people are making EDM lists now too :) :) :)

I suppose the best reply to this whole very historically and techinically sound argument would be this list is most probably the Top ?? EDM songs on the dancefloor

It's a welcome break, this list actually :-).

Yeah.. you could say that but I wasn't specifically aiming for that.. it's just coincidence :)

No, house, techno, and electro actually work better (although it depends on the DJ). Trance breakdowns can empty the dancefloor. Besides, there are all kinds of floorfillers that work better than absolutely anything on this list you missed, if the list was made to that end. Besides, floor filling tracks are usually close to the mainstream: people dance to what they know, it takes a great DJ to get people going to the obscure. To tell you the truth, I can think of a huge number of tracks that fill any floor faster than the majority of the songs on this list:
The Bucketheads - The Bomb!
The Ones - Flawless
Soulwax - NY Excuse
Benny Bennassi - Satisfaction
Mylo - Drop The Pressure
Eric Prydz - Call on Me
Dave Armstrong - Make Your Move
Phats and Small - Turn Around
Rex The Dog - Frequency
Daft Punk - Around the World
Armand Van Helden - Hear My Name
Cevin Fisher - The Freaks Come Out
Stardust - Music Sounds Better With You
O'Zone - Dragonstei Din Tei love it or hate it, this will fill any dancefloor, and the people will sing. I don't play it, but I've heard it in a club, and even the wallflowers were dancing)
Akufen - Deck the House (If used properly)
Reinhard Voigt - Zu Dicht Dran
The Orb - Lunik
Spektrum - Kinda New (Tiefschwarz Dub)

French house is by far the best floorfilling genre (followed closely by electro), not trance, simply because trance has very little "funk," the key element to making people dance. Even techno is better than trance, simply due to it's driving energy. Therefore, this list couldn't possibly be top 50 floorfillers. Besides, even if you considered other genres in making this list, and all of your favorites turned out to be trance, don't you think it would still remove some confusion if you just called it My 50 favorite trance songs...or Top 50 trance songs? (if you really want, although that isn't quite fair either, because it doesn't take influence into account). The other genres are just as good: isn't it a little cruel to take them into account and not give even one a placement on the top 50: do you think it might be possible you don't actually like house/jungle/psy/techno/house, and only trance, and are hence attacking these excellent genres by calling this top 50 EDM list? The hidden message in that title is: the other genres only wish they could be as good as trance, that's why the entire top 50 is trance, OR I only listen to trance music, isn't that the only genre of EDM? Whether you intended it or not, that's how it comes across to anyone who listens to other genres of EDM. It insults the rest of EDM, and makes you look like an ignorant prick. Since I know you aren't ignorant, or a prick (I've talked to you quite a bit on listology, after all), don't you think it's a little more reasonable to call the list "Top ?? eurotrance songs?" (or better: "My favorite ?? eurotrance songs"?)

Could you make a list of French Songs?

Lol..good to see you back dt. Anyway on to the more serious stuff!! I have EDM on the title because it's my top 50 electronic dance music songs of all time, why none of the other subgenres (generally) are in there is because Trance is the best and the one that infuences me the most. You say there's a lack of others but that's because none of them songs are good enough (in my opinion). You said I'm missing "something like 30 genres of trance", well actually the list is my favourite EDM songs ever, not a list of every type of genre ever created.

I meant Cafe Del Mar started it off for me (and many others BTW) I know it wasn't the first Trance song ever or anything like that (I did say that on the list though).

On to Insomnia.. My list is a list of the songs I enjoy most, not whether it's a classic or not which is where my list seems to differ from yours. Just because KTF-3am Eternal was released before Insomnia doesn't somehow make it a better song which is what you seem to think. Insomnia is well better anyways besides the two songs aren't really similar anyway so I don't get your point..

Adagio For Strings IS NOT a cheap gimmick, lets just get that out of the way-I still can't believe you compared this to Crazy Frog!! You obviously see things different to me. Are we even listening to the same song here? "Anything enjoyable about this tune was already enjoyable in the original piece" ^
Ehh.. actually the classic part is played for around 30 seconds of the song whereas Corsten's part is played for 3 whole minutes i.e. the entire song. Another thing I didn't rate it on is whether you can "dance" or get the crowd going, I just simply think it's the greatest Trance song ever created.

Anyways bear in mind I did just create this list so there's bound to be songs I've left out or don't have. Nice to hear from you again dt.

Actually darktremor I don't think one of these songs are "eurotrance" songs with the exception of maybe one or two. And sorry bout the misspelled KTF-3am Eternal. It is of course KLF..

Actually, all of them are eurotrance. Eurotrance is the subgenres of:
Progressive trance, anthem trance, epic trance, dream trance, supersaw trance, ibiza trance, "scouse" trance, poptrance and all variations and combinations of the above. Virtually every one of these tracks is eurotrance, with the exception of a very small few...here, I'll place your list into subgenres for you:

William Orbit-Barbers Adagio For Strings (Ferry Corsten Mix) [Symphonic/anthem trance]
Energy 52-Cafe Del Mar [Anthem/progressive trance]
Faithless-Insomnia [Anthem trance]
Robert Miles-Children [Dream trance]
Underworld-Born Slippy [This is one of the few non-eurotrance songs. Tech-trance.]
Delerium feat. Sarah McLachlan-Silence [Epic/anthem trance
Warrior-If You Want Me (Non Vocal Version) [Epic trance]
Ian Van Dahl-I Can't Let You Go [Push Vocal Remix] [Epic/Anthem trance]
System F-Out Of The Blue [Anthem trance]
Push-Strange World [Progressive/Anthem trance]
Tiesto-Suburban Train
IIO-Rapture (Tastes So Sweet) [Armin Van Buuren Remix]
Humate-Love Stimulation [Ibiza trance]
Mauro Picotto-Komodo [Anthem/Ibiza trance]
Sasha-Xpander [Progressive trance]
Paul Van Dyk-For An Angel [Epic trance]
Art Of Trance-Madagascar (Ferry Corsten Remix) [Anthem/progressive trance]
Three Drives-Greece 2000 [Anthem/Progressive trance]
Jan Johnson-Flesh (Tiesto Mix) [Epic trance]
Chicane-Saltwater [Ibiza trance]
Armin Van Buuren-Communication [Anthem trance]
Push-Universal Nation [Progressive/anthem trance]
Matt Darey-Liberation [Epic trance]
Cygnus X-The Orange Theme [Progressive trance]
Plastic Boy-Live Another Life (Non Vocal Version) [Epic/Anthem trance]
Solex-Close to the Edge [Dogzilla vs Michael Woods Remix] [Never heard it, actually, but based on the other work by these artists, I'd say epic/supersaw, epic, anthem, or epic/anthem trance]
Lange-I Believe [Epic trance]
Nalin & Kane-Beachball [Ibiza trance]
Lost Tribe-Gamemaster [Michael Woods Remix] [Progressive trance]
Age Of Love-Age Of Love [Classic trance, also not eurotrance]
Balearic Bill-Destination Sunshine (DJ Tiesto dub) [Anthem/Epic trance]
Atlantis-Fiji (Cequenza mix) [Anthem trance]
Solar Stone-Seven Cities (Stone's Atlantis mix) [Ibiza trance]
Veracocha-Carte Blanche [Epic/Anthem trance]
Revelation-Just Be Dub To Me (Original mix) [Anthem trance]
Thrillseekers-Synaesthesia [Epic trance]
Supersiffic-Ascension [Never heard this, actually!]
Niels Van Gogh-On A Freak [Also never heard]
Tilt-Invisible (Lost Tribe vocal mix) [Epic trance]
Quench-Dreams [Classic/Acid trance - another non-eurotrance]
Agnelli & Nelson-El Nino (Matt Darey Remix) [Anthem trance]
Planet Perfecto-Bullet In The Gun [Epic trance]
PPK-Resurection [Progressive trance]
Darude-Sandstorm [Anthem trance]
Minimalistix-Close Cover [Anthem trance]
Ayla-Angelfalls [Epic trance]
Faithless-We Come 1 [Anthem trance]
Matt Darey-Beautiful [Epic trance]
Binary Finary-1998 [Anthem/Acid trance]
Push-The Legacy [Progressive/Anthem trance]

There were only three non-eurotrance on that entire list.

Impressive.. I'm just going to quote a definition of Euro-Trance for you:

"Euro-Trance: Euro-Trance is a hybrid of Techno and Eurodance music incorporating Hardstyle bass drums and trance elements in a cheesey, yet addictive way. The trance synths at times sound like techno hoovers with trancey effects and strings backing it up. The vocals are often pitched up for the most part, but sometimes they can be heard as in normal pitch range. This is often confused as Vocal Trance because of its use of vocals. The lyrical content is usually pretty simple, containing an introduction to the song with usually no or little drums, and often includes renderings of classic Happy Hardcore anthems or melodies. People who produce this subgenre include Groove Coverage, Jan Wayne, Scooter, Starsplash, Rob Mayth, Special D and DJ Volume." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro-Trance)

It seems to me that this is the crap that you hear on the commercial radio stations and is aimed at 10 year olds that can't get into clubs.

So none of these songs are actually "Euro-Trance".

Here's where subgenre confusion sets in. There are two definitions for eurotrance:
1)The ridiculously cheesy sub-subgenre of epic trance, which you just mentioned. This is more technically called "Scouse trance" - mainly to avoid this confusion. (You're right, this music is pure garbage)
2)One of several "schools" of trance music. This school is based around large buildups and breakdowns, supermelodies, and a general accessibility that make this the world's second most popular dance music (house still wins out). Sample DJs: Tiesto, Ferry Corsten, Armin Van Buuren, Paul Van Dyk, Robert Gitelman, Paul Oakenfold, ATB, etc..

You're quite right, I don't think there's even one (sub-genre) euro-trance/Scouse trance on the list, but absolutely everything falls into the semi-genre of eurotrance.

This is why placing dance styles is confusing...here, I'll make a chart:

Trance
-psytrance
>>>>>psytrance
>>>>>goa trance
>>>>>psytechno
>>>>>ambient psy
>>>>>progressive psy
>>>>>hard acid trance
>>>>>Tribal trance
-gothtrance
>>>>>futurepop
>>>>>dark trance
>>>>>EBM
>>>>>New Beat
>>>>>darksynth
-hard dance
>>>>>NRG
>>>>>Trancecore
>>>>>Hardstyle
>>>>>Happy Hardcore
>>>>>Hard trance
-oldskool
>>>>>Classic trance
>>>>>Acid trance
>>>>>Acid techno
>>>>>Hard acid trance
-progressive
>>>>>Tech-trance
>>>>>Breaktrance
>>>>>Progressive breaks
>>>>>Deep trance
>>>>>Progressive house
>>>>>Tech-house
-eurotrance
>>>>>>"Progressive" trance
>>>>>>Anthem trance
>>>>>>Epic trance
>>>>>>>>>>>Melodic trance
>>>>>>>>>>>Radio trance/Pop trance
>>>>>>>>>>>Trance remix
>>>>>>>>>>>Eurotrance/Scouse trance
>>>>>>>>>>>Happy House (pretty interchangible with Scouse Trance
>>>>>>Ibiza trance
>>>>>>Dream trance
>>>>>>Supersaw trance
>>>>>>Symphonic trance

We're both right, this is an argument of semantics. I just forgot about that annoying little subgenre. Perhaps call it "Top 50 Melodic trance songs"? That's the other name for the Eurotrance semi-genre. Although it does also have a sub-genre under epic trance, this is a respectable one, and it's lesser known by that name (Melodic trance is simply all epic trance that doesn't fall under the other categories: ie Paul Van Dyk - For an Angel, The Thrillseekers - Synaesthesia are melodic trance. This is Armin Van Buuren's style). Besides, the description fits every song on your list. They are all, indeed, melodic.

:) It's glad to be back! :) I missed having these little debates. :)

On Adagio for Strings: I didn't compare it to Crazy Frog in sound: William Orbit certainly chose a better track to remix. However, it's the same hitmaking concept: take an old song, add a beat, and release for radioplay. Both produced a hit not on their musical merit, but on their nostalgia value. This is the same trick used by DJ Sammy, Aurora, Crazy Frog, and 10000 other trance remixers, and to use nostalgia in this way is a definitive gimmick. I certainly think Adagio for Strings is hands down the masterpiece of this annoying little subgenre, but this is definitely the weakest "subgenre" of trance.
Ferry Corsten and William Orbit didn't actually ahve to do anything. There's a processor in every studio and every music program, known as "the arpeggiator". On being fed a sequence of notes, it generates a reverberating, arpeggiated variation based on a series of musical rules (I mean "music theory," not programming code). It has been one of the all-time favorite tricks of electronic musicians looking for a quick buck to feed old songs into the arpeggiator and add a 4/4 beat to the result. Adagio for Strings is no different, it simply chose a better sample.

Ah! I see what you mean about Cafe Del Mar. Carry on then.

I also get what you're saying about The KLF. However, shouldn't you change the title of the list to state "my favorite," rather than "top"?

Nice debating with you again! :) :) :)

Nah, If the list was "my favourite", it would be very different to the one now. For example Born Slippy wouldn't be in my top 10, but is widely regarded as one of the best. So therefore I'm trying to create a list of the 50 greatest in my opinion with a little help from my mates and of course, yourself and other helpful ravers.

About Adagio For Strings, listen, you're the only one I have ever met that seems to see it like that. Maybe you should ask Ferry himself and ask him did he have to do anything with the song. He is well capable of doing that himself as he is one of the greatest DJ's on the planet, the song itself sounds like typical Ferry Corsten anyway. Anyway it's obvious that we're not going to agree on this so can we please put this to rest. *R.I.P. 2005* :)

Brilliant list! I bought the MP3's on your list and I have been happy with the selestion.

Suggestions -

Chicane - Autumn Tactics (Thrillseeksers Mix)
DJ Sammy - Boys of Summer. (This song in particular desrves a LOT of credit..despite the fact that it has been termed cheesy ("Yeah I've heard this before...it sucks!), and DJ Sammy has been bashed to pulp by everyone (including me). EVERY single of my non-electronica inclined friends who hear this are hooked on to it. And you can't really deny this is a good song, a lil crass though.)
Paul Van Dyk - Nothing But You (Faithless Mix) - A true gem this one.
Faithless - God is a DJ
Lady Tomkraft - Silence

Yeah, Boys Of Summer is quite good I will admit, probably one of the best pop-trance tunes around. I did like DJ Sammy like 2+ years ago, Heaven was one of my favourite songs around then but you eventually grow out of the "cheesy stuff", I still like it though. People should leave DJ Sammy alone really, just because they don't like the song doesn't mean they should say DJ Sammy is crap. Some people like it and like I said before, Boys Of Summer is one of the best pop-trance tunes around.

Paul Van Dyk - Nothing But You (Faithless Mix) is a great song but it's very similar to the original. I don't know it's kinda floating around the 50 mark but I'd hate to get rid of any of the other songs.

Faithless - God is a DJ: Yeah, another one of my favourite Faithless songs but the only problem is I either get rid of We Come 1 or leave God is a DJ out, it's a really hard choice.

The other two I haven't heard yet but thanks for the recommendations :)

Nothing But You - The Faithless Mix is way better than the classic original. You have to warm up to the song over a period of time...like listening to it around 10 times on the headphones without actually listening it out just to judge it. If you listen to it carefully, it has got one of the most amazing trance buildups in recent times...move past the 3 min. mark and the multiple song layers just burst forth into a perfect song that just floats around serenly ... just too good for words. It can also double up as a floorfiller if you cut out the long intro and extro.

Moving on. DJ Sammy and Heaven . Heaven I feel is the muscial definition of rotten cheese. It's horrible... a pop tune catering to 10 year olds who feel techno is Sandtorm and the likes, loud, crass, unapologetic rip off from Bryan Adams, and merciless overplay by amateur DJs. It was so popular for the simple reason that people were unaware of beter songs and the tune makes use of a very successful gimmick - use an old (and VERY successful) song, remix it and re-release it with some added 18-note horn melodies. As for Boys of Summer it is actually good song (a bit too much of epic vocaltrance for my liking, but still). It is DJ Sammy's coming-of-age song... past the 1:20 mark, the song is just too good. Very much like Nothing But You (although the later is uncomparable, on a much much much higher strata than Boys Of Summer . I compare them in the similar way of usage of the female vocal-melody use.). And it can get people foot tapping almost immediately. DJ Sammy appeals to mass consciousness because the masses are uninitiated to what is true trance. And I doubt if they do get to know what is true trance, whether they will like it so much as the few elite (if I may say so) people. As darktremor pointed out earier, trance can empty the dancefloor. It appeals to only a few mindsets. ( Or so I think )

I must admit when I first heard Nothing But You (Faithless Remix) I wasn't that impressed with it but I suppose your right about listening to judge it. I'll listen to it a bit more and get back to you on that.

I can't agree with you on DJ Sammy though. You say that you absolutely hate Heaven, yet you almost love Boys of Summer?? It seems pretty similar to me, you can't hate one song and love the other. Even the title "Boys of Summer" tells you all you need to know as there both pop-trancy tunes aimed at mainstream- and they've worked.

Not that I hate DJ Sammy it's just that he designs his songs to make money.

I agree with Merlin. Anyone who remixes 80's pop into trance should be shot.

Boys of Summer, however, employs the precise trick you railed against (rightfully) earlier in your argument (only with a different 80's pop song). I don't see what makes it any better than Heaven. (+agrees with TranceAddict)

Also, Merlin, what (can) empty the dancefloor about eurotrance is not the "appeal to only a few mindsets," it's those ridiculous breakdowns. You really can't dance during them, all you can do is put your hands in the air and wave them back and forth like a brain-dead zombie. Play too much of this, and people will grow sick of it. Eurotrance has its place, but it has to be supplemented with other genres, even other styles of trance that lack such overdone ambience. You can make anyone move to great dance music if done properly (I've seen a hip-hop floor overstuffed during a great funky house set), and this is difficult in the realm of most eurotrance.

True..

But that is partly to blame for where Trance is heading. Djs are making music that will make people dance, regardless of whether it sounds good or not. Take Eric Prydz-Call On Me or Uniting Nations-Out of Touch, crap really, but these have achieved more success than the brilliance of the likes of Tiesto,PVD,Push etc. Such a shame..

Naah, I disagree. Eric Prydz - Call on Me is French house, not trance. Personally, I think it's a great track, really catchy, excellent choice of sample, fantastic thick and funky beat. House music is right on track, all kinds of great tunes have come out of it lately, especially now that it's starting to hybridize with microhouse/glitch and indiepop. Listen to or Erlend Oye - DJ Kicks, or Kompakt - Total 6 for proof. House is more innovative and intersting than its ever been, I'd say.

Uniting Nations - Out of Touch is just a stupid little dance remix, totally inconsequential, another annoying novelty hit that will be quickly forgotten. Nothing to do with the trance or house scenes.

Trance, on the other hand, is on the verge of death. Rather than innovating and hybridizing like all other genres, it's decided to take what made certain tracks hits way back when (especially Rank 1 - Airwave), and completely stylebite them in the hopes of gaining another hit in the same vein, and when that doesn't work, they just make it bigger. Rather than innovating, they're recycling ideas from within the genre: listen to Armin van Buuren's "A State of Trance" radio show for proof. All old ideas, and not even old ideas done well. There's barely any energy left, trance is on its last legs (although progressive has some hope of saving it, that's a different scene entirely). It's about time for eurodance to either disappear or reinvent itself, as the genre has been milked to total irrelevance (with the exception of a few very rare gems). Sadly, I don't see this happening any time soon, as Tiesto, Armin and PvD will continue their reign over the top 100 due to the accessability of their fantastic older mixes on Kazaa leading generation after generation of newbies to continue voting for them (experienced listeners aren't as likely to vote, they become jaded against musical popularity contests), despite the fact that their current music is nothing but rehash (or bad ideas, see Tiesto's latest album), and considered generally irrelevant in modern electronic music.

Tiesto, PvD, and Push WERE brilliant. Now they're coasting on their reputations (actually Push is still decent, but he's shifting over to the progressive scene).

Tiesto is not ignored. He's more popular and more overplayed than ever. Regardless of what he releases, it will be a club hit.

BTW, if dance music isn't making people dance, its failing miserably.

You are very passionate about music. Can you recommend any websites to research and find cool trance music available on the web? How do you find such great music? You should start your own website! :)

I presume you're talking about darktemor there. If you want to get these songs you should use a file-sharing program like Limewire, Soulseek etc. as you probably won't find any worthwhile site that will host good Trance music-I certainly haven't. Besides some of these songs are super-rare so it would be hard to get hold. I got most of my songs off cd compilation albums that I own and as for artist profiles and info you should try discogs. It has artist profiles of all major Trance DJ's and producers :)

Ishkur is a good site if you want to understand trance and know what makes it so popular.

Not nearly as popular as it should be..

I'm glad you talked about trance on it's last legs.

Why is this happening? I remember the peak time of tance (late 1998-99-2000-2001) when we had some really good ones being belted out...and that includes the ones that don't exactly appeal to popular consciousness, like ambient music, for example. And they too were a rage between the people who understood and appreciated such kind of music. But now, all we get to hear are remixes, re-remixes and re-re-remixes (trust me on this one...PvD has more remixes than originals). Why all of a sudden should the innovations of the true Gods of Trance stop? Is trance not appealing to mass appeal? I feel the record companies and the likes of MTV (since TV STILL is the largest network in media) are to blame...a TIesto CD will have like one true gem, 5 shitty songs, and 3 even shittier remixes and the whole CD cover is filled with Tiesto. Tiesto turntabling. Tiesto eating. Tiesto being Santa. Tiesto in his car. Tiesto in Club. Tiesto kissing his friends...whatever.

PvD, Tiesto and the likes WERE good, I agree. But why now nobody listens to them so much? Tiesto IS overplayed, but not the truly effervescently good DJ we knew him to be, but cheap gimmicks like Adagio for Strings and Flight 643 that he is turning to.

Boiling down, what I am trying to ask is - why should trance be dying if you, me and so many of us like it?

They're out of ideas. The template of trance tightened and tightened over the years, to the point that virtually every really enjoyable melody, and every nifty sound effect that could be utilized within the bounds of the genre was eventually used up. Now, you'd think the artsits would respond by loosening the definition of the style, but no, they responded by tightening it further, and exagerrating aspects that made previous hits great, until they eventually became unlistenable disasters.

There are indeed a few artists who loosened the boundaries, but they are few and far between, and usually gobbled up by other genres. My reaction: let it die. Its elements live on it other styles of music, and it will be rediscovered someday. That neo-trance and microhouse community building up around Kompakt and the like is getting quite fascinating...and house music is as interesting as its always been. Techno has been making some nifty little tunes lately: lets listen to those instead. There will be an occasional trance gem here and there (ie: this year's fantastic Dominic Plaza - Sounds Rushing, and Gabriel & Dresden's Arcadia), between those gems and the other genres, there's plenty of good listening. Progressive is worth a look too: most of trance's few modern masterpieces are fired out of this community (ie The PQM's absolutely brilliant "You Are Sleeping"). These styles will someday reform into a less strictly controlled vision of trance, we can wait until then. OR, do as I do: start DJing this eclectic little combination.

It's wrong to just say "let it die". Why should it? It's only been around for 12 years FFS, why should trance die when the likes of pop music is so repetitive and unoriginal it makes you want to shit yourself, yet no-one says anything about that, no-one says that it should die (which it should BTW). People still buy their albums like there's no tomorrow and can't seem to get enough of it - What is so different about trance?

There is an infinite combination of melody that has yet to be discovered in trance, it just needs some creative artists to exploit. The EDM scene owes a lot to trance anyway, it is the most popular form after all and has spawned new sub-genres like, as you mentioned, neo-trance for example. People will soon realize that EDM cannot live without trance, that it won't be the same without it and hopefully we will see some good new artists rediscovering the brilliant stuff like what that of what we saw in the late 90s.

I personally think neo-trance and microhouse are horrible, just a bad imitation of trance and other electronic genres. I looked at your neo-trance and microhouse list and got your top songs, you actually said "It's better than trance". Can you just sum up a 12+ year old genre to a brand new one just like that? Do you really think it's better? To be honest, I can't see how you can like Akufen-Deck The House in direct comparision with the likes of Nalin & Kane-Beachball, they're just so different - it would be like me comparing Slipknot to Coldplay.

That's microhouse, which has virtually no relation to trance, besides being electronic in nature, and also descended from house. Try the tracks by Kaito and The MFA. Those are "neo-trance" (which isn't really even a subgenre (yet), it's just a description the music press invented for experimental melodic artists who accidentally created music that sounded like really really good trance, minus the template).

How is microhouse imitating trance? Listening to the two back-to-back, I don't hear any relation whatsoever. They're, like you said, Slipknot to Coldplay (I'm actually not sure exactly what you were implying with that analogy...I was never comparing Beachball to Deck the House in the first place, the two are such entirely different styles of listening that you CAN'T compare them at all, in fact - you use entirely different parts of your brain for listening to each genre). Actually, I don't even see how microhouse is imitating any genre...it just seems like a natural progression of french house, glitch and minimal techno to me (Some of the artists even crossed into it from those subgenres), only with a sort of freeform improvisational vibe that electronic music has been sorely short of since its creation. Since all genres are progressions of ones that came before, its not imitating anyone, that's like saying humans are a rip-off of chimpanzees.

Most genres do not last for 12 years, creative ideas dry up by that time. You must remember, "pop music" is not one gigantic sludge of a genre that hasn't changed in the (circa) 50 years its been around. It has progressed and morphed into new and different subgenres throughout that time. Certain styles have been "allowed to die," as there were new evolutions in sound that were yet unexplored, that had far greater opportunity for creativity. As a subgenre ages, it gets more and more templated and uninteresting. A 10 year run (about 10 for eurotrance, not 12) for a subgenre is pretty good. Most pop genres last about 6-8 years: synthpop - circa 8 years; teenpop - circa 5 years (it's mostly dead now, in about the same state eurotrance is in now); modern guitar "rockpop" - 2-3 years so far...and so on.

As for summing up neo-trance and microhouse as better than eurotrance, I refer to the genres in their current state. Eurotrance is running out of steam. Microhouse and neo-trance are at the highest point they've ever been (whether they have reached their final peak remains to be seen). You can't really compare eurotrance as a whole to "microhouse and neotrance" as a whole, but in their current state, I think only the greatest enemies of microhouse could call trance the stronger genre at this very moment.

As for EDM not being able to live without trance, actually, it did just fine without it for about 15 years. Besides this, the genre has been ignored by "serious" (read: snobbish, but somehow in charge of what's "7337") electronic fans and music critics, and the majority of "relevant" electronic music (which means a progression of the experimental, avante-garde, and classical musical schools, moving music into previously uncharted, highly artistic, but entirely unmarketable territories) has carried on virtually complete ignorance of the existence of trance (and especially eurotrance). Besides, EDM has about 50 different musical communities in it. The majority are isolated boxes that ignore one another, trance is jsut another of these boxes.

As for trance being the most popular electronic genre, it's actually fourth. This is not a subjective opinion. 1st: hip-hop. 2nd: house. 3rd: dance-pop (this would have been number one years ago). 4th: eurotrance - but ONLY if you include electrotrance (Benny Bennassi, etc), otherwise electro comes 4th. You can't possibly debate the popularity of hip-hop over trance. As for house, take a look at the club charts. Little to no trance, quite a tonnage of house. Look at the music critics. Trance is entirely ignored (because there aren't many noteworthy releases right now), while house of various forms is getting rave reviews (no pun intended).

As for pop music being "so repetitive and unoriginal you want to shit yourself", what is trance doing right now? If every track is an Airwave ripoff, how is there any originality? Besides, pop isn't all that bad at the moment. Indie pop and rock artists such as The Arcade Fire, Sufjan Stevens, Franz Ferdinand, The New Pornographers, The White Stripes, and their kin are actually making some pretty creative and interesting stuff. Much more interesting than the current state of trance.

Note that I say current all throughout. Eurotrance WAS a much stronger genre than the pop of its time. Trance should have been given much more play, should have been much more popular - it was, in Europe, as a matter of fact (apparently). However, those were the days of Energy 52, and Nalin and Kane, and Binary Finary. Now we have a bunch of aging superstars (musically aging) out of ideas trying to squeeze every bit of fame they can out of their bygone glory days in the late 90's, and actually succeeding. Eurotrance has become more corporate and processed than pop music (which is suddenly underground and experimental, for once). The subgenre needs to die. It will be back in a different form, but for now, it needs to die, just until the superstars with their heads so firmly planted up their asses that you'd need a road map to find them drop off the map. Retro trends being what they are...wait about 5 to 10 years.

OR...show me some tracks released within the last year that aren't virtually unlistenable, and prove me wrong (there are about 5 this year, so far, and 4 of them were produced by one of the other music scenes, and the last one is half connected to another musical community. Deep Dish - Say Hello : Progressive; Dominic Plaza - Sounds Rushing : Progressive; Rex The Dog - I Look into Mid-air; Minimal/mini-electro/microhouse/neotrance (all one community); Gabriel & Dresden - Arcadia (half-progressive, half-eurotrance; Kaito - Soul of Heart (Minimal/mini-electro/microhouse/neotrance)). I'm not talking about subgenre of sound, I'm talking about the musical community.

(heehee - this debate is getting heated. *Darktremor is fascinated.* No hard feelings either way, eh? 'Tis just an interesting little debate)

Check my reply below.

Now 'tis is some wise thinking.

Alright, here we go.

Boys Of Summer , first off is not loud-n-crass, the thing that pisses me off the most because trance cannot be that. Second, it is better than Heaven in the sense that I (personally) find it a bit less amateurish and could find some ( some , so don't jump the gun on me on this one) trance elements in it. Third, the most important aspect I feel in which Boys scores better over Heaven is that I like the added sub-notes to it past the 1:20 mark (although later it just gives a nostalgic strain of Heaven). Anyways, I think it's all about agreeing to disagreeing :).

Is Eurotrance really dying? I feel that club DJs play this the most often...and that can only be is it appeals to popular consciousness (or maybe not...I'd like to hear your views on this, since you yourself are a DJ). Although I agree about the long breakdowns (*shudders*), it breaks the whole momentum. Eurotrance has it's place, I agree...but where exactly does it fit in? (Again, I'm talking w.r.t the club scenario...when do people like to listen to it). What about rave/jungle? At the risk of sounding cheeky, I'd like to bring forth the dance in The Matrix : Revolution. The energy it generated was considerably good. Is there any place for jungle/rave? And lastly (I hope you bear with me), exactly WHY is Hip-Hop and the likes of 50 Cent so popular (*grrr*)? I mean the lyrics are bad, music worse (imo), and the styles repetitive and boring. Why should it deserve so much popularity ?

I'd like to hear from any DJ who reads this :)

To be honest darktremor, at this stage I'd be worried if you actually agreed with me on anything I say but hey, what can you do..

I meant neo-trance is an inferior alternative to real trance, not microhouse which I believe is just plain crap (based on your favourite song that is). I just used the Deck The House/Beachball as a musical comparision, being totally different, I'm surprised you can like both of them as no person can like Slipknot AND Coldplay (unless you're completely retarded).

Are you trying to tell me trance has been around for only 10 years, that it begun in 1995? Age of Love-Age of Love (1990), Energy 52-Cafe Del Mar (Original)(1993), Humate-Love Stimulation (1993), Paul Van Dyk-For An Angel (1994) are a few examples of trance songs that predate that and you could also argue that it began earlier that that.
Anyways neo-trance and microhouse are obviously going to be currently in a better state than trance, after all trance is at it's lowest point ever while neo-trance and microhouse are at it's highest.

I certainly don't think trance has been fully explored and probably will never be, like I said before there is an infinite combination of melody that has yet to be discovered, any combination of vocals and musicical layering.. Anyway just because pop-trance and the like are repeating itself (which I certainly agree on), this doesn't mean the whole genre is dead. For example, have you ever heard a song similar to Cygnus X-The Orange Theme, Underworld-Born Slippy or Robert Miles-Children (without pointing out a single exception!!)? Considering this while arguably trance is still in high demand (hence me, you & others talking about it), why should it die?

On the topic of EDM living without it, how would you define "fine". Do you really think it would be where it is now if it wasn't for trance? I think not. You said "the genre has been ignored by "serious" electronic fans and music critics, and the majority of "relevant" electronic music fans and music critics..." Well I presume you're talking about trance here and to be honest would you not consider yourself an electronic fan? Because if you do, it doesn't look like you're ignoring it (after all, you have posted most of your content on the subject of trance). But I get what you're saying about isolated boxes that ignore one another, which is my point exactly. If trance dies then I will have not much interest in EDM (me and MANY others) and we will then see the real loss.

Maybe trance might not be as big as house, dance-pop/commercial in clubs (BTW how the f*ck is hip-hop EDM?) but it isn't always designed for clubs (Push, Ferry Corsten...& so on usually don't make music based on 'danceability') and as you know trance was certainly the best in it's prime, and for me, still is the best. Besides trance is still popular, maybe not where you are, but I live in Europe (where it is still popular) and I'm sure there is some good stuff being produced in Holland, Germany and Belgium but is just so inaccessable to us, pretty much impossible actually, that might be why there is such a lack of good 'noticable' artists.

I would just like to interject -- I don't like Slipknot OR Coldplay, but I do like both the Dillinger Escape Plan and the Pernice Brothers, which is kind of the same thing. So does that make me retarded? I'm just sayin'.

Never heard them so I wouldn't know.

I can imagine liking both Slipknot and Coldplay. There is no boundary to who can like listening to what. In a given day, you'll find eurotrance, microhouse, techno, indie rock, underground and abstract hip-hip, jungle, gabber, indie/fey pop, jazz, minimalist classical, dance rock, ambient, glitch, french and deep house, trip-hop, acid, dub, IDM, breaks, disco, new wave, turntablism, classic rave, progressive, and the just plain weird on my playlist. I don't really subscribe to the belief that if one likes a certain genre, they cannot like another. And I don't consider myself or any other with this kind of musical taste "completely retarded." Unless an IQ of 148 constitutes as "retarded" these days - I don't mean to brag, and I'm not looking to impress, but I'd like to know where your claim that I'm "retarded" is coming from. Besides this, there's a general rule in debating that personal feelings towards your opponent should not be involved: calling someone retarded, or stupid, or even just "wrong" is both a wasted argument, and a loss of credibility, nor should your opinion of a person change based on their opinion in the debating arena (with a few exceptions, and a musical discussion is not one of them). (Philosophy 101)

Meh, it's all good.

Anyways, moving on, I don't mean trance: trance has been around about 17 years, and the "trance music" concept (not the genre) has been around for thousands. [By "trance music," I mean any hypnotic music you can completely lose yourself in, perhaps the earliest purpose of music (see tribal)]. I mean the subgenre of eurotrance. Age of Love, the original Cafe Del Mar, Love Simulation, etc. are not really eurotrance: they are classic trance. The insta-melodic, uber-anthem style of eurotrance only really came to be around 1996, maybe 95 - although there were glimmers of what was to come, it wasn't a real subgenre just yet. (For an Angel is 98, BTW, not 94). We agree on my point with microhouse then, but I suppose you're right. I need to clarify that. The wholes of trance and microhouse are incomparable as genres. However, in their current states, microhouse is undeniably far stronger than trance. Thanks for pointing that out! :) :) :)
(Which neo-trance song did you listen to BTW?)

I have heard many songs similar to Robert Miles - Children. As a matter of fact, an entire sub-sub-genre was formed around it, listen to anything by DJ Panda, any of Robert Miles' other releases, DJ Dado's (awful) Dreamscape, or any of the other weather-channel anthems that somehow found their way to trancefloors in the wake of Children. Cygnus X - The Orange Theme is a perfect example of a very good "progressive anthem" (it may actually be the first one, in fact) - although there is nothing EXACTLY like it, there are similar tracks in LSG - Netherworld and other anthems of the time. Underworld - Born Slippy is quite similar to a great number of other tracks by Underworld (and not eurotrance besides). This doesn't matter though: if there were tracks made that sounded like these earlier ones, it wouldn't be interesting or original. I don't understand this argument: just because there are unimitated tracks (which isn't particularly true), doesn't mean eurotrance still a ways to go.

There are not an infinite number of combinations of melody, beat, and vocals possible in eurotrance, without a great amount of repeitition from song to song. There most certainly are almost infinite combinations in the full genre of trance, but there are only so many anthemic arpegiatting chord-progression melodies possible that will actually both work on the dancefloor and sound good. They need to innovate and move past this stupid "buildup-breakdown-explosion" sound which is close to absolute exhaustion. In fact, they've pretty much stopped making the arpegiatting melodies (which was the real hook of the entire genre)! It's buildup, breakdown, bring the beat back during the breakdown now. This is NOT an innovation, this is bad musical construction, especially when EVERY SINGLE TRACK does it. What needs to go is the template, it doesn't need to be weakened further.

I do indeed think electronic music would be in virtually the same place if it weren't for eurotrance. The progressive house community might be a little bit different, and maybe the neo-trance genre wouldn't exist (maybe), but that's about all. Oh, and happy hardcore wouldn't be recycling trance anthems and trance templates - this would be a great improvement, as the genre is completely killing itself thanks to this terrible new trend, and hardcore would also still exist with some originality, rather than this awful hardstyle nonsense (which has possibly the most controlling template electronic music has ever seen). French house would still be ticking along, microhouse would be unaffected, glitch, jungle, techno, breaks, hip-hop, IDM, ambient, experimental electronic, big beat, and the majority of all other genres would be completely untouched and unaffected. Why? Because, for the most part, the rest of the electronic music world either hates or ignores trance.

I put "serious" in quotes, because I think it's a pretentious attitude to have, trance is quite fun music, and often sounds quite cool - entrancing even, if done right. One of my favorite genres, for this simple reason alone. I am a serious electronic music fan, not a "serious" one.

Eurotrance should die, because the genre as it is has become a commercial husk of the brilliance it once was. If it dies, that commercial sheen will disappear as it reverts to the fascinating underground state it was in before becoming an international phenomenon. It will be a real genre of music again, rather than just an image (which is basically what its become).

When I say trance should die, I don't mean it should die and disappear. That would be completely impossible, as well as quite a shame. What I think is EUROTRANCE should die, while progressive trance, electrotrance, neo-trance, and other more artistically legitimate styles come to the forefront. This is already starting to happen a little bit. Eurotrance has basically been squeezed dry, for now. Elements of it could come back in the future, but until that stupid little template disappears, trance will be an empty musical husk of former glory.

Anyone interested in EDM for trance alone, should not say they are a fan of EDM. You are a fan of trance. That's like saying you love all guitar music because you listen to Avril Lavigne.

Actually, all artists who make trance design it for dancibility, with the exception of a few album fillers. Trance is NOT important music, it's dance music. you'll hear "important" electronic music at places like Mutek, from artists like Biosphere, and Akufen, and Basinski. Trance is about big, dumb, fun hedonistic dancing, and giant superclub orgies of jumping barely clothed with your hands in the air on more drugs than you can count (in its very most extreme), not about quiet, contemplative, experimental listening, as "important" music that will shape where the future of art goes is.

About trance still being good, I listen to ASOT occasionally, and the quality has really REALLY gone downhill. It's not impossible for us to access, listen to DI.fm, download the tracks off trance.nu, and ivibes, download the future favorites and tunes of the week from ASOT. It's easy to stay caught up with trance, I have, and it isn't what it used to be. You're right, it is still popular, but I didn't deny that. 4th most popular genre of EDM is still pretty good.

Hip-hop is unquestionably electronic music, as everything in a hip-hop track besides the vocals is electronic or sampled. Since music is not defined by its vocals (and trance has vocals too), it is EDM. Besides, its club music. Those beats are tailor made for big soundsystems.

I have more to say on this, but I must go now.
Nice debating with you! (I shall finish the post later, you can respond now if you'd like anyway)

How can you think I was calling you a retard???? When I said "unless you're completely retarded" I meant people in general. Here, try replacing the word 'you're' with 'that person is'...
Make sense now? Thought so. Once again you're reading far too much into it.

Ok then, it's obvious that you are going to disagree with absolutely everything I say, so really there is no point in arguing with you, everything I say you'll disagree with and I'll disagree back with you and so on.... So, instead of typing out another huge post (and spending ages doing that), I'm just going to sit back listen to some of my quality tunes. Haha...

Gotcha. (With the retard thing). No hard feelings, twas a simple misnterpretation/misunderstanding. It's all good. :)

Anyways, moving on, that's how intellectual debates work. You see, this isn't simple contradiction, we're actually having an interesting discussion. What's really happening here is exactly this (the proper format of intellectual debating):
1.You make an statement, consisting of a simple conclusion with no premises (as premises are unneccessary in this stage).
2.I disagree, stating the conclusion I came to that is different from the one you came to. I then try to disprove your conclusion by stating the premises for my conclusion, and finding reasons why your conclusion is unsound.
3.You try to disprove my conclusion by stating the premises of your argument, and finding reasons why my premises are unsound, and pointing out problems with the holes I found in your argument.
4.I point out flaws in the flaws you found with my argument; I add extra premises to my argument, strengthening it; I find further holes in your argument; I search for invalidity in your logical reasoning and point out any found.
5.You rebut again, going through the same process I went through in step 4.
6.Repeat 4 and 5 indefinitely. This process will end when one argument is so disproved that one debater is forced to concede, when both arguers come to a seperate conclusion supporting all sets of premises that are shown to be sound. In either case, both debaters leave with a greater knowledge of the world around them (in this case the musical one), and all parties benefit.

That's basically what is done here at the listology forums. I'd say. It can be compared to a battle: two sides firing at one another and building up their defenses until only one remains. It's not violent or destructive or cruel, it's how the world comes to its decisions, and if done properly, all sides should emerge as slightly more knowledgable friends. Personally, I find it interesting, comparable to a game of chess. Yes, we're going to disagree, but a conclusion is going to be reached I'm not simply contradicting you, and neither are you: I'm pointing out flaws in your argument, and you in mine. There most certainly is point in arguing, I'd say, it's how the world develops intellectually, and weeds out and destroys misinformation.

Are you going to rebut then? (as in, respond to my large post as though there were nothing in between)

Looking forward to it, seriously. :)

You're quite the philosopher. I'm speechless...

I honestly can't tell if that's sarcasm or not.

Regardless, my post is basically taken directly out of any 1st year philosophy textbook. So if its sarcasm, don't blame me, if its a compliment, don't commend me.

No, no it's not.. There's no need to get all worked up over that, I'm just interested. Btw I always reply, it's just that I'll need time to do it (It'll take best part of an hour).

No offence meant, really. :)

No prob, not offended, just clearing things up. (I always imagine a voice attached whenever I read from the internet, and occasionally the tone stumps me).

Anyway where were we... :)

Just so you know I got Isolee - Beau Mot Plage and from what I've heard so far, microhouse and neo-trance are two completely different genres... are they? If so why do you have them toghether (on your list I mean)? You see, Brau Mot Plage isn't too bad (certainly not as good as REAL trance, mind) but I seriously can't see how you like Deck The House. Why?

About those three songs I mentioned as examples (Robert Miles - Children, Cygnus X - The Orange Theme and Underworld - Born Slippy), well obviously there's going to be a few similar tracks, but not enough to say that every last drop has been squezzed out of their respective sub-genres. I do agree that some sub-genres should die (and horribly at that) like pop-trance, radio/scouse trance (if this is what you meant by 'eurotrance' then, my bad..(you're right, this is terribly confusing, please specify)), they are simply tarnishing the entire trance scene. Again please specify what you mean by 'eurotrance'-do you mean the entire genre or just the commercial/cheesy sh*t.

Darktremor: "When I say trance should die, I don't mean it should die and disappear", well it looked like you meant it should die pemanently, and you must admit, that is what it appeared like. It is pretty confusing when you keep changing from
"trance" to "eurotrance" (look back ^ to see what I mean). To me, they are completely different (eurotrance is a crappy little subgenre of trance and trance is the daddy). On the subject of the WHOLE genre, I think you're over-exaggerating just a bit. Sure it's bad, it's at the lowest point ever I will admit but still, I think that all it will take is one massive hit to come along (ala Insomnia) and things won't be as bad as they first seemed, after all, Tiesto, PvD , Ferry Corsten and Push are still pretty much dedicated to trance.

Actually, not all artists who make trance design it for dancibility, Push doesn't make his music caring if people would jump around to it. You most likely would not hear this in a club (with the exception of remixes, obviously). Dream trance wouldn't make people dance, would it? Sure trance can be about "big, dumb, fun hedonistic dancing, and giant superclub orgies of jumping barely clothed with your hands in the air on more drugs than you can count" *lol*, and most are designed for that (at least the popular ones) but there is certainly more deeper, darker stuff that is designed for a personal listening experience.

There is still SOME good stuff that has been released in the last 2-3 years, maybe it's not exactly original, but I'd still rather this than most other music. Btw if you want me to post a list here of some good songs released in the last three years, I will.

I agree, there is a certain whole genre of trance that is just meant for personal listening...you would never have Lost You Somewhere or most of Chicane at any club.

+also agrees with darktremor about 'letting it die'. Every genre has it's peak and almost all genres (baring mainstream rock) has been revived after only a few years of dormancy ( ref. ABBA - Boney M and then we had Aqua and the likes). It is better to let the old melodies to themselves than remixing them so much that they become analogoues to a war victim being raped over and over again. After a while maybe it will get newer (and techier) sounds...who knows? We might get better songs than ever before.

This is exactly what I mean by "letting it die."

(Chicane is sometimes played as a "set warmer" or "cooldown" - Offshore became almost a cliche for that. Rave chill rooms are also rather fond of Chicane.)

I'll arrange this into points:

1)How can I like Deck the House?
Deck the house is a brilliant track from a technical standpoint at the very least. Akufen designed an entirely original and previously unused method of sampling, which is executed to perfection in the track. Unlike other samples, which are random pieces of dialogue, older music, or sound, placed in a track to add a new section of rhythm or add to the atmosphere, Dech the House uses functional sampling. Each piece of sound (which are called microsamples) is a tonal note on a scale, if measured out. You could hum "Deck the House," and it would still be a song even without the sampling. This has never been done before, and is an incredible feat of sound engineering. I cannot, for the life of me, figure out how he managed it, as not only are the samples the right notes, they are added bits of rhythm and atmosphere in themselves.
From a musical perspective, "Deck the House" is almost definitive "funk," there's even a "funk" section underlying the later portions of the track. However, this is a matter of opinion as to whether the beats and melodies are good, personally I think they're absolutely fantastic, very attention deficit but somehow organized.
From the artistic side, whether or not the melodies, beats and rhythm "touch you" (as it is supposedly called when a song entirely clicks with you), there are other aspects to appreciate. For example, every sample is taken from radio transmissions. Akufen takes songs we all know and hate, songs so cliche, cheesy, and boring we curse the day we were given ears after hearing the radio overplay them day after day for an entire year, and manages to make them interesting. The obnoxious yatter of wannabe comedian DJs, irritating bits of guitar riff, egotistical crooning of talentless divas, everything we hate about the radio is microsampled into the track. But Akufen finds the tiny bits that made the songs so popular, and removes them from their context, the glimmers of enjoyable music in this sea of wankery. The song becomes every good aspect of OVER 2000 (yes, there are that many samples) normally unlikable songs, which results in genius.
A surreal world is constructed in Deck the House (and all of "My Way"). I can't even put my finger on this one, the atmosphere is so original, something I've never heard until "Deck the House".
The structure of the song is something to be marvelled at: an "order from chaos" format. Out of a sea of incomprehensibility, order slowly coalesces. Where there was initially confusion, we get a powerfully constructed tune, a real song. I have never heard this effect done before Akufen, and I have yet to hear it since (even in the genre of microhouse). You at least have to commend him for this.
On top of this, even if you can't stand the musical aspect, you find the art pretentious, and the technology stuffy and boring, you can at least enjoy it as a "puzzle." The majority of the microsamples in the song are taken from well-known songs: if you concentrate hard enough, you can begin to recognize them. It's somewhat amusing to try and pick out as many as you possibly can.
There are so many other facets to this excellent little tune, I can't even begin to name them. If that doesn't convince you, you'll never like it. I would actually go so far as to call it one of my all-time favorite songs (if not my very favorite).

2)Beau mot Plage is not neo-trance, it too is microhouse. You see, microhouse doesn't have a powerfully constrained template: in fact, there isn't really a format at all, it's a style of musical thinking that favours "small" sound and extreme attention to detail. It applies the minimalist philosophy of "making every sound count," but doesn't tie itself down to the repetition of this kind of thinking: it's minimalism that isn't minimal, and usually ends up being much more complex than even the most confusing and weird trance tracks (aka goa). Neo-trance is another subset of this thinking, only it applies the beauty of trance and a deep atmosphere to the concept. Download Juurgen Paape - Mit Dir, The MFA - The Difference it Makes, or Kaito - Soul of Heart (this is possibly the very best example of neo-trance). You're going to like at least one of the three tracks, as all are very different.

3)By trance should die, I mean all eurotrance, progressive, anthem, ibiza, epic etc.. . It should be as Merlin said. His rape victim analogy is precisely how I feel about eurotrance in its current state.

4)Wouldn't it be better if trance disappeared for a few years and came back highly original again?

5)What do you mean about there being no other good music? There are several thousand genres of music out there. Commercial and mainstream music accounts for less than 0.01 percent of the music in the world, why not check out some other genres? Try getting into house (there are something like 80 genres of it: eurodance, funky house, deep house, classic house, microhouse (!!!), tech-house, progressive house, dark house, etc etc etc - they all sound so different that at least one should appeal to you). Listen to some techno. Abstract hip-hop has some great music. Downtempo and chillout are still good listening. IDM and experimental electronic music are consistently fascinating - give the Mutek compilations a good listen. Indie rock and pop constantly employ electronic sounds, and are far more interesting than anything found on the radio (think Sufjan Stevens, The Arcade Fire, Belle & Sebastian, The New Pornographers, etc. etc.). Take a look at the electronic pioneers like Karlheinz Stockhausen and Philip Glass. Check out jungle, psytrance, gabber, EBM, classic trance, futurepop, glitch, breaks, jazz, the "progressive" scene (try James Holden's Balance 005 for a good intro to this, great stuff, even has some neo-trance), electroclash/nu-electro (there's more to this genre than Benni Benassi, who is simply the cheesy mainstream arm of the style - give Ivan Smagghe's Hard! compilation a spin - although it also contains some microhouse and funk), etc. There's more to music than trance, do some exploring.

6)The majority of all artists make trance for the clubs. Trust me, so does Push: he does chaos on the dancefloor (this is why he releases mostly singles, listening music is released onto CDs). And ream trance works quite nicely in clubs, Children is generally considered the number one rave recruitment song of all time. No, there's VERY little trance designed for home listening. Besides, this frustrating breakdown-infested style of dutch trance is not made for the headphones, it too is mostly 12' releases. Those who make trance on the side probably wouldn't be affected by the killing of eurotrance, they don't go out to make trance music, it's just the end result of their musical experiments (which is how its supposed to be!!!). This isn't even done with eurorance anymore: can you think of any (decent) listening trance released in the last 3 years (that doesn't fall right in the middle of another genre: ie James Holden's Balance 005)? Neither can I.

7)Sorry about mixing trance and eurotrance up, consider every time I said either trance or eurotrance to mean "eurotrance." I don't even bother with scousetrance/eurotrance in my arguments, it's just not even in the picture musically.

8)I know quite a number of good trance songs from the last few years. it just isn't what it used to be, and each release gets weaker than the one before. More importantly, dancing to a modern trance set is the aural equivalent of having your arms sawed off: this isn't how it's supposed to be.

Good idea:

1) Fair enough, you like Deck The House, I don't.. simple as that. At first I actually thought my computer was f*cked up when I was listening to this until I realized it was meant to be like this, me personally, I just can't understand it. Yes it's original, and it is a puzzle... I do recognize (and hate) some of the songs sampled on this but you really shouldn't be blinded by this distraction. I just don't like it and can't see myself getting into microhouse if these songs are like this. Good luck with it anyway :)

2) Beau Mot Plage is o.k., nothing inspiring. I just don't think this genre is for me. I'll get those songs you suggested for me sometime.

3+4) Well I thought you meant die permanently (it was pretty hard to tell after all). It would be great if it came back original again but do you really think this will happen? Worst case scenario it could disappear and we could never see it again. You have to be realistic here and not just hope it will just magically reappear in a few years all patched up.

5) I'm not sure where you got this from. I don't remember saying this, what are you reffering to?
Anyway I like all good music (esp. Trance) like house, rock, rap, r&b, indie etc.. Pretty much all good music but only SOME mainstream so I'm not sure what you mean here.. Just wanted you to know that it's not only trance that I like... Doesn't matter :)

6) Well I can think of some listening trance released in the last 3 years IMO (btw why only last 3 years?? I meant since trance began), but if you think dream trance and the like aren't, then no I can't. Also I know the vast majority make the music for clubs, but I was just pointing out that not all is designed for dancing. Push's music is arguably 'dance music' but can be viewed (or listened to) either way.

7) No prob :)

8) I know it's not how it's supposed to be, to be honest the cheese/mainstream is killing us and driving people away. But still, there are a few great songs (although much rarer then earlier years) that have been released in the last 3 years, and you must admit, it is still better than most other stuff. Like I said before, all it takes is one huge hit to come along to change people's views on trance and help turn it around. The artists CAN do it.. It'll just take a lot of effort and creativity.

1)Microhouse isn't all like that, because there's no real template for it. Microhouse can sound like that, but the vast majority explores other areas of microsound (Akufen emphasized the glitchiness of the genre, other artists simply use it as another layer, which makes for highly unconfusing music). That just happens to be my personal favorite (and that of quite a few others). Seriously, almost every song on that list sounds different, you never really know what you're going to expect with microhouse.

2)Beau Mot Plage is another odd one: actually, there's really no regular microhouse, but there's definitely at least something for everyone here: try The Knife - Hearbeats (Rex the Dog mix). I don't know anyone who doesn't like that song, very accessible. You're probably giong to love neo-trance, it gets rid of everything that bogs trance down in its current state (and brings experimentation back into the mix).

3 + 4)No, not at all. That's impossible anyway, I can't think of a single genre that permanently died. Besides, it's already seeing a resurrection (with neo-trance from the microhouse guys, and minimal trance from the progressive house community)

5)Ah - gotcha. I was just under the impression you only liked listening to trance. Tis all cleared up.

6)Could you name some of the recent "listening trance"? Push's music is inarguably for the dance floor, as a)he never stops using the 4/4 beat, b)he (mostly) only releases on records, c)his music IS played on the dance floor at peak time by megatrance DJS, and d)All of his songs orbit around the template set up with his first single (but don't perfectly follow it: Push does have some integrity left, for sure): "Universal Nation," or "The Anthem," depending on when you got it, which is considered one of trance's definitive floorfillers.

8)Nah, the cheesy mainstream's been here forever. It's has a different scene than the underground, it doesn't really do anything bad for trance except tarnish its name in pop music circles (which we don't really care about anyway, do we?). No, the problem is the "underground" trance itself. The template set out by Rank 1 - Airwave, which the artists seem unable to drop, the unoriginality prevailing over every producer, and the inablitiy of DJ Tiesto and his kin to pull their heads out of their asses are killing trance. The other scenes are saving it already though, check out the world of progressive house's minimal trance, and give a listen to microhouse's neo-trance (which are already conglomerating with DJs like James Holden and Superpitcher).

Can I ask you at what clubs does Push still get played at peak times? It would have to be a strictly all-trance set because I find it highly unlikely it would get peak time play at your average club. Well the simple fact that trance is rarely played at commercial clubs anymore means that artists like Push don't really get a look in anymore. The only resemblance to trance you'll probably hear in clubs is commercial/cheese, pop-radio and maybe house/French house. I'm not saying Push isn't for clubs, I'm just saying he's hardly Sash, for example.

I never said the cheesy/mainstream wasn't ever around but what I meant is that it has certainly become more common and successful recently, you can't argue with that. If you want proof, simply turn on your radio. Agree? It is driving people away because I know people who have never heard of Push or Ferry Corsten (unbelievable and depressing I know) because they are simply not exposed to the stuff on MTV or the radio. Instead they have cheese like Eric Prydz and Uniting Nations (I don't know how you can like Call On Me, it's just so overlooping and cheesy, I mean just look at the video FFS (not that I'm complaining about that :). lol )

So another problem with it is that trance is not widespread enough for people to demand it. Without demand, the artists will just pack up and look elsewhere, which is partly why a lot of them have gone into the commercial industry. Would you agree?

There are several clubs here in Ottawa that play trance, but trance isn't really a North American phenomenon. It's Europe that's really big on the stuff.

Push gets extreme play by superstar DJs, absolutely every single one of them has played him at some point (and most have his most recent tracks in their record boxes).

Your "average club" does not play underground trance, because the most average clubs will simply play the top 40. This is not a problem, as clubs of every kind exist, and they don't play pop trance as trance music, they play pop trance as pop music. Trance has it's own time and place, it's own clubs dedicated to it and other electronic genres (well, it's own nights at least, in EDM clubs, and I'm OK with that, the world needs diversity, and I like most other electronic genres besides.)

None of the underground artists have gone into the commercial industry, not really. Everyone who produced underground trance, still produces underground trance. And commercial trance is no more widespread than its always been, in fact, in the mid 90's (I don't remember perfectly off the top of my head, I think 94-96, about?) cheesy commercial trance (aka eurodance, but it might as well be commercial trance, they sound almost the same) was the world's most popular genre of music. So no, the two genres do not detract from one another, as underground trance has continued ticking along as it always has, even in an such a diluted era as the mid-90's.

As for Call On Me, it is indeed overlooping and cheesy, but unlike mainstream trance, it knows it. It doesn't try to be anything but dumb, silly fun (and in that, it greatly succeeds), whereas mainstream trance seems to think its pretty deep and powerful (hence what makes it annoying: every lyric attempts to be something incredible and profound, every sound is so excessive, so faux-epic, when there's nothing there to back it up (although this occasionally succeeds, I still enjoy Castles in the Sky, among a few others)).

Do we really care if trance is popular or not? I couldn't care less what gets played on the radio, or what everyone else is listening to. What bothers me, is that the genre of underground trance is so incredibly diluted by Airwave knockoffs that modern trance sets become virtually unlistenable. I don't care about a track like DJ Sammy - Heaven, because no underground trance DJ in their right mind would play it in a million years. However, when underground trance stops being listenable, that's when I have a problem. Hence why the genre should die (until resurrection - this is already occuring: neo-trance and minimal trance. Try out those tracks, you'll see what I mean. Listen to James Holden's Balance 005.).

As for trance's unpopularity, tis not so: take a look at the top 100 DJs list. There's more incentive than any period since the late-90's to be an underground trance artist. Raves are still big on trance, Europe is massive on the stuff, personally I think it's far too popular. Besides, can you name even one underground artist that has gone into the mainstream?

Unrelated: I put a link to your list on my "Top 300 trance" page (in the author's comments).

The artists haven't gone into the commercial industry as such, but you must agree a lot of them have become more cheesy and aimed at mainstream. Example: Tiesto; As good as he is, he is obviously not doing what he should. Adagio for Strings, it's popular, why? Ferry Corsten's version is far better and never will be beaten so I'm not sure what he was thinking doing another remix, doing it to make money. His recent songs don't really set the world alight do they? Ok, they haven't gone into eurodance to the extent of Special D (or any kind of eurodance for that matter), but they have become more commercialized. Another example is Ferry Corsten's Rock You Body Rock (which I like btw-but it's not really trance is it?), it's hardly his classic self of System F-Out of The Blue or one of his hundreds of remixes which have the "Ferry Corsten trademark". Maybe it's a good thing to bring in a wider audience, maybe it's not, maybe it should stay underground forever. But whichever way you look at it, you must agree that trance has changed in this sense.

Me pesonally, I don't care if trance is popular or not, but people have to hear it somewhere. Everyone I've introduced to trance loves it, but before they had a clue about it, they thought all there was to it was Scooter or Ian Van Dahl or as you said DJ Sammy-Heaven - the crap that we all hate. So in that sense, maybe I do care if it is popular.

If it is the case that trance is so popular and "there's more incentive than any period since the late-90's to be an underground trance artist", then why is it on the verge of death, why has no new groundbreaking DJ been found in the last few years?

Erm.. one underground artist that has gone into mainstream is Faithless!! They've definitely abandoned trance (they said it themselves) and gone into mainstream and to be honest, they should stick to what they are good at.... TRANCE. And if Tiesto and a few others don't get their act toghether, they will be gone into mainstream before too long aswell.

1)Faithless was never a straight up trance artist. They produce dance music in general, and they've always been mainstream. Insomnia, arguably their strongest trance tune, was all over the airwaves, it even got some play in North America, and most of their other trance tunes were major club hits. So no, not really.

2)Your argument is a red herring. Whether or not any innovative DJs have been found has absolutely nothing to with the popularity of a genre. Besides this, I never once said trance was on the verge of death. It isn't, take a look at this (top 20 DJs and their genre):

1.Paul van Dyk - trance
2.Tiësto - trance
3.Armin Van Buuren - trance
4.Sasha - progressive house/progressive trance
5.Ferry Corsten - trance
6.John Digweed - progressive house/progressive trance
7.Hernan Catteneo - progressive/deep house
8.Deep Dish - progressive/deep house
9.ATB - trance
10.Carl Cox - techno/tech-house
11.Paul Oakenfold - trance
12.Richie Hawtin - techno
13.James Zabiela - breaks/tech-house/progressive house/electro/acid
14.Christopher Lawrence - progressive trance
15.Judge Jules - trance
16.Marco V - trance
17.Eddie Halliwell - hard house
18.Erick Morillo - house
19.Above & Beyond - trance
20.Sander Kleinenberg - deep house/progresive house/progresive trance/microhouse/funky house/electro house

Precisely one half of the top 20 DJs play trance and only trance. 5 of the others play some trance. This seems like an incredibly disproportionate amount of trance music, especially for a genre that's supposed disappearing.

Back to your point (which is a red herring anyway, I don't actually need to respond to it), I'm surprised all new DJs aren't drowned out by the posturing of the already established superstar autograph machines. Although, there are some, tons, in fact: Gabriel and Dresden, Andy Moor, Superpitcher, Benny Benassi to name a small few, are all trance DJs that have only recently become famous. Besides this, there are tons of new ones as of 2005 who haven't become stars yet because it takes years to become a star. However, this has nothing to do with the mainstream aspect of the genre. Red herring.

3)As for Ferry and Tiesto's new sounds, it's called evolution. If Ferry continued producing tracks like Out of the Blue (which were already getting tired by the end of 1999, considering every track he released employed the same sounds and formula), trance would be even more watered down than it is today. As for "Rock Your Body Rock," I don't see how that's "bringing it to a wider audience". Out of the Blue was a top 10 hit on the Billboard charts, Rock your Body Rock didn't go nearly as high. Besides, what's so commercialized about Rock Your Body Rock? He didn't hire a crooning diva, he didn't resort to tired pop cliches, I don't understand. And it most certainly is trance, it just has an electro tinge to make it interesting. That's innovation, not selling out. He's already a top 5 DJ with a string of top 40 hits, how could he possibly "sell-out"? You might as well say the Backstreet Boys sold out when they released "Incomplete." As for Tiesto, same deal (although he's declined greatly in quality).

4)As for people's impression of trance music, that's their problem. I really don't care what they think about my usic. Ian Van Dahl sounds just like underground epic BTW, they're not really sellouts (it's the same format as "Satellite", after all, and everyone raves about what a great underground anthem that is. Play it on the radio, and I they'd be singing a different tune...).

Firstly, you DID say "trance was on the verge of death"!! Look back and see.

As for the top 100 DJ list, that does not reflect trance in it's current state, the list has barely changed in the last few years, and probably never will. PvD, Tiesto and AvB will always be at the top simply because there is no-one better than them. We are lucky enough to have some of the most talented artists in the EDM scene, the DJ list reflects this. Besides all this, didn't you say that trance was the fourth most popular electronic genre? As you said "this seems like an incredibly disproportionate amount of trance music, especially for a genre that's supposedly disappearing", it almost seems as you're impying that it's the most popular. A bit of a contradiction don't you think?

Before we go on I never said (or meant) whether or not any innovative DJs had been found had anything to do with the popularity of trance. I was simply pointing out that because you said "there's more incentive than any period since the late-90's to be an underground trance artist" I was wondering "why has no new groundbreaking DJ been found in the last few years?" And suddenly that's a "red herring". WTF? As a matter of fact, you haven't actually disproved anything anyway, how are Gabriel and Dresden, Andy Moor, Superpitcher and Benny Benassi (most of which are not exactly trance artists) groundbreaking TRANCE artists.

Not so long ago you were talking about trance dying, "because the genre as it is has become a commercial husk of the brilliance it once was" yet all of a sudden you're now calling it an "evolution". When I said Rock Your Body Rock was commercialized, it simply means that it is aimed at mainstream, mainstream being "the wider audience". I like the song anyway, so it's not like I'm being biased here. And no, it is NOT trance, read this or this. It mentions that it's "less trance than rock" and although it has some trancy elements to it (it is Ferry after all), there is certainly not enough for it to be called trance. Anyway besides this, where on Earth did I say Ferry Corsten is a sellout?? You are totally taking things out of context and if anything, you're the one implying Tiesto, Corsten etc. are sellouts. Ferry Corsten is in my opinion, the greatest remixer of all time and it would be just stupid of me to call him a sellout so no, I never said that.

Faithless started out underground, it's just that because Insomnia was so successful, it shot them into fame and into the charts (like Robert Miles - Children and Delerium - Silence). They have only recently become 'mainstream', their latest songs are certainly more non-trance than trance. Examples:
Trance) Salva Mea, Insomnia, God is a DJ, We Come 1 (all pre-2001)
Non-trance) Muhammad Ali, Mass Destruction, I Want More (all post-2001)

Hmmm.. you're a hard dude to argue with. lol, it's all good. Btw did you get my e-mail?

1)Armin Van Buuren, Tiesto, and PvD are most certainly not the world's best DJs. As a matter of fact, they're hardly better than jukeboxes. For the world's true DJ talent: Kid Koala, Z-Trip, Coldcut, Cut Chemist. Eurotrance DJs do not scratch, they don't backspin, they don't use 3 turntables (none of the top 250 anyway), they don't perform any feats of turntablism, nor do they innovate. Eurotrance DJs do nothing but choose records, and ambient beatmix (the easiest form of professional DJing) them together.

2)As for eurotrance's popularity: here's a bizarre oxymoron. Eurorrance tracks are getting less popular, eurotrance sets are getting more popular. This is where the confusion lies. I really don't know how to explain this, it's bizarre. The reason for the contradiction in my own arguments: I wasn't organizing my premises properly. Sometimes when i posted, I had the DJ list in mind. Other times, I was thinking about charts and critical reviews. So I'm going to reconcile all of my opinions on this subject, now that I have everything in my head, and realize these odd contradictions:
a)Critically, eurotrance is ignored as irrelevant, and it should be.
b)Chart-wise, eurotrance is a dying beast, there is very little eurotrance even on the club charts these days.
c)Airplay-wise, eurotrance might as well not exist.
d)Rave-wise, eurotrance is doing OK. It's about balanced with the other EDM genres now.
e)DJ-wise, eurotrance is (VERY VERY unrightfully so) the world's most popular genre. However, I think this has to do with the extreme publicity of the DJ-mag list in the Netherlands, where eurotrance has been in a protective love-bubble since the mid-late nineties (probably out of nationalism, because of the great number of Dutch producers). However, many of these DJs are moving towards other genres: minimal trance/neo-trance (Tiesto is attempting this, it seems), electrotrance (Ferry Corsten), progressive house/minimal trance (Armin Van Buuren). This is likely to change in the very near future.
f)Relevance-wise, eurotrance is gone. These is virtually nothing innovative or interesting that comes out of the genre anymore.
So, eurotrance is on the verge of death when it comes to creativity, and it is a commercial husk. Another note: trying to be popular is not the same as being popular. Eurotrance is the fallen popular kid in school that does the exact same things that made it popular the first time around over and over again in the hopes of gaining back its support, without realizing that its such repetition that makes people dislike it. Therefore, it's not only dead, it's a commercial husk of the brilliance it once was. As for that evolution, I was describing Ferry Corsten's track, which most certainly IS trance (read point 6), your sources are wrong.

3)As for the groundbreaking artists I mentioned, they are out of the "minimal and neo-trance" worlds. These genres exist spereately from eurotrance, and these are certainly groundbreaking trance artists, just not eurotrance.

4)Your argument was a red herring, because there are a massive ton of new eurotrance artists coming out all the time. Whether or not they're groundbreaking is entirely irrelevant to the argument, but a clever distraction to the actual question, and henceforth, a red herring, especially considering that one of my central arguments states that eurotrance is no longer innovative. What I mentioned were groundbreaking trance artists, and it so happened that none of them were eurotrance. As to saying there's more incentive than ever to go into eurotrance, this is because you're absolutely guaranteed to be picked up by DJs now, as the top 100 DJ list is dominated by eurotrance.

4)When I say trance should die, I wasn't specific. What I mean, is eurotrance should die. Minimal trance and neo-trance should pick up the torch, and eurotrance should see a revival in a few years time with renewed innovation. (There is also an electrotrance sound getting some support now too, a la Ferry Corsten, Benny Bennassi)

5)Let's define two words right, this should clear up a lot of confusion:
1)Mainstream: A sound supported by popularity charts.
2)Underground: a sound not supported by popularity charts.
Faithless saw more chart support with eurotrance. Faithless have always been changing their sound. They changed their sound away from eurotrance around 2001. Since then their chart support has lessened. This is not clearly not selling out, it's evolution. However, it's irrelevant anyway, because I highly doubt you can think of any other eurotrance artists who are going to other genres. Note: Mass Destruction is ska. Ska is a less popular genre than trance. Therefore, Faithless going into ska does not mean they are selling out, as selling out means switching to a more popular genre of music away from one guaranteed to give no chart support.

6)On the subject of "Rock Your Body Rock": your sources are wrong. Simple as that. There is no guitar, there are no drums, the track is entirely electronic. One of those articles describes a "keyboard riff," which is something every eurotrance track has. ****, the song even has a breakdown, another eurotrance staple. I don't hear any rock in there at all, only electro (robot voice, updated 80's keyboard, "electro" sound staples as instruments, electronic guitar simulator Keyword: simulator! It isn't meant to sound like a guitar!), and trance (buildup, breakdown, keyboard riff, 4/4, DJ intro, outro, "hands in the air" sound, arpeggiation). This style is what you would call electrotrance, and Ferry isn't doing this to gain acceptance from a wider audience, as he already had their full acceptance with a whole string of top 40 hits. It is an evolution within trance (not eurotrance!), and it works well. (Note: I thought you were implying that he had sold out, and was trying to get accepted by the mainstream, when you said it was aimed at the mainstream. Note that a large number of his tracks are aimed at the mainstream, including "Out of the Blue," and "Gouryella").

7)Tiesto and Corsten are moving slightly away from eurotrance lately, in a very surprising move. However, Tiesto is failing at it. He really has no idea how to do anything outside of eurotrance, and he is suffering for it (take a look at the miserable failures that are "Just Be," and ISOS4. The only memorable moments out of those two are the rare eurotrance successes, and tracks from the neo-trance/minimal trance worlds that other DJs have already been playing for months now). (I never called them sellouts at any point. Ferry on the other hand is becoming a bona fide electrotrance DJ. Both of these fit with my model of trance (hopefully) shifing away from eurotrance.

You MUST realize that eurotrance is a mainstream genre!!! The radio WILL (sometimes) play eurotrance, when an artist moves away from eurotrance, they are not aiming for a mainstream audience.

Moving on, I'll add you to MSN next time I go on, but I very rarely do. I replied BTW with my e-mail adress.

Teehee, I drove my debating teacher insane. Tis indeed an enjoyable discussion though. A lot of the problem here is having a debate over several days too, there are slight changes in thought process and communication from day to day, and that lead to a lot of confusion (especially with general trance (including psy, "progressive house," hardstyle, minimal trance and neo-trance, gothtrance and EBM, etc) vs. the eurotrance megasubgenre).

Oh my gosh, you seem to have some very warped views on music and i'd like to bring you up on a few points.

1. Do you actually get anytime to listen to music or do you spend all your time writing little up to date list of the latest types of trance? Who really cares? Surely you have completly shot down in flames the whole point of music which is that is a personal expression of taste
2. Where are you from? If you wanna come down to Brighton anytime and go out any night of the week, listen to the local radio stations or just come and meet with my mates i'll show you that 'eurotrance' is not dying. Your just one of those classic people that believes that because you are up to date with the latest genre's somehow you look down on the rest of us mortal souls, music is not a place for ego's, especially trance
3. you said: Armin Van Buuren, Tiesto, and PvD are most certainly not the world's best DJs, well i'm sorry but they are. The reson they rightfully take their posistion is due to years of production and set construction, and also ability 'TO FILL LARGE VENUES'. No better than a jukebox is bull**** and you know it, As for ambient beatmixing you also no that alot of the top 250 key match as well when mixing
4. As for feats of turntabism in the top 250 look no further than eddie halliwell, 3 turntables alot of the time, crowd pleaser who scratches all the time

Ok rant over

As for the original poster of the list, well done mate, personally i love your selection, although the ommision of gouryella was a bad mistake on your part, off to listen to some classic trance tonight so should be fun, have a good weekend

I'm not sure what I was thinking not putting it in, I must have just overlooked it. I'll make room for it anyway.

(This is directed at Superhoop, not Tranceaddict. Tranceaddict knows how to carry on a proper discussion: Tranceaddict I have great respect for.)

Darktremor's lists:
First trance list ever created on listology
Second trance list ever created on listology
Third trance list ever created on listology
Fourth trance list ever created on listology

Dumbfuck. I'll respond to the rest of your post when you pull your head out of your ass and are willing to argue like someone who's at least been potty trained.

I have no problem at all with talking to someone who has a different opinion from my own: in fact, I enjoy it. However, if that person is going to be a flaming dick about it, I'm not going to respond. Music is certainly no a place for egos, take your own advice, asshole.

Who really cares? You screwball, if the mush of the decaying non-existant neurons of your brain can't possibly fathom the beauty of trance, it's better you blast yourself or take out the cd drive and screw it 'mate'.
Ignorance is bliss they say...so 'mate' if you can't follow the debate or can't understand the facets of trance, I think God has given you your senses for all the wrong reasons.

Filling large avenues doesn't make anyone a good DJ. Read the meaning of 'good'. Good is when it is innovative. Good is when it doesn't sound like a car engine that hasn't been oiled for aeons. Good is when you unknowingly start tapping your feet. PvD, AvB, Tiesto are no longer that. Like said earlier (if you've taken the time to read all the posts, which I seriously doubt you have), they rape trance like a war victime over and over again. Or something to that effect. Ocassionaly we do have good trance like Tiesto's In Search Of Sunrise series ands stuff.

(This was in strong support for TranceAddisct (excellent debater) and Darktremor (excellent p.o.v. too) ).

I think darktremor's excellent (and true) statement that "trance is both the best, and the worst genre of music in the world" sums alot of this up :).

I think what we have here with Superhoop is a world class internet troll.

Nice work Hoopy, you've proven to all the emptiness and pointlessness of your life. Hats off to ya.

Entirely agreed with Merlin and Tranceaddict's responses: couldn't've put it better myself (well, except in the case of my little quote, I guess I did...:P :P :P).

I'll admit that trance isn't my favorite dance genre, but I love both Orbital's "Halcyon + On + On" and POB's "The Fly."

I suggest Darude - Touch Me Feel Me should be up there. Amazing underdog sound.

Yep.. It's a good song (plus a welcome change from Darude's hard-style) but personally it's my third favourite Darude song after Sandstorm and Out of Control. Still pretty good though.

what about secret knowledge sugar daddy, like a motorway david holmes mix,papua new guinea and the likes

Well Sugar Daddy isn't good enough, never heard Like a Motorway but Papua New Guinea should be up there. I'm amazed I forgot it.

Excellent addition! Love Papua New Guinea. Check out Hybrid - Symphony also. Simply incredible recent discovery of mine.

I put it up. Just goes to show there's tons of great trance music out there that we haven't even heard.

Agreed, it would take an eternity to get through all of it...

Suggestions-
BT - Blue Skies
Chicane - Lost You Somewhere
BT - Godspeed (Hybrid Remix)

Those BT tacks you mentioned are both o.k. but personally, I rank Force of Gravity and Dreaming higher. And Chicane - Lost You Somewhere (Tiesto Mix), it's actually pretty good but I really don't think it deserves a place in the top 100.

Knowing Tiesto, he's probably chopped off the beauty of the original. It has all the aspects of a true blue trance song! It is funktastic! Do check it out.

BT - Flaming June is probably one of those 'trance-defining' songs ever. Do give a relistening session.

Another BT song.. :P Will check them all out again.
Tiesto isn't THAT bad, it wasn't so long ago when he was the no. 1 DJ, remember? I know he has gone downhill (maybe he dragged the whole genre with him- who knows?) but he is still undoubtedly one of the most talented producer/mixers on the planet (although obviously not based on current form).

I've put up the PvD mix of Flaming June, really sweet tune. I'm also considering putting up Touch Me Feel Me aswell, the song has really grown on me.

I'm glad. really :):)

Hi, I'm new to the forum. You guys certainly look like you know the ins and outs of trance. I was wondering what genre "Cream" by Blank and Jones would fall into. I really like the ATB remix. What subgenres would B&J and ATB fall under? Also, I started getting hooked onto the cheesy scouse stuff first, but now I'm starting to "grow out of it" and listen to the real stuff like ones on the list. I've downloaded some of the suggested music on iTunes but of course their trance music supply is severely limited (only ONE PVD album?!) Finally:

DJ Gulit - In My Dreams

What subgenre would this fall under? This was one I just grabbed off a free download samples website, like music.download.com is now. And I liked this one so much too. I still like this since I am crazy about theme and variations music however simple it sounds. (I love Pachelbel's Canon) The last 2 and half minutes (my favorite part) of this song ends with 5 variations played one right after another. It could be another one of those "Blade" soundtrack-esque beat songs, but nevertheless its part of a playlist that makes my morning cardio sessions go by much faster. :)

Another query: "Fundamental" by Sasha is probably way up on my list of personal favorites (likely in my top 5) thus far. Any recommendations for songs like that one? I know it is maybe not as remix-able as one of the greats, but its just another one of those I cannot get tired of.

P.S. about "In My Dreams" - I won't get offended if you guys see it as scouse trance. I admit it does combine wacky synth sounds with a "hoe-down" BPM.

One thing I just found out: not even the much radio-played, popular "Sandstorm" by Darude can be found on iTunes. Go figure.

A good place to start, is download TranceAddict's top 10, then download my top 10 (for an entirely different perspective):
Darktremor's top 250 trance songs

After that, simply work your way down both lists, you'll end up with quite a collection (and quite a credible and eclectic one, at that).

Use soulseek, not Kazaa or iTunes (unless you can use iTunes, but this is unlikely):
Soulseek

Don't get their beta version, there should be thousands of people on the program. If there are not, you have the beta, get the current version instead.

Blank & Jones - Cream is trance, although I don't have the ATB mix (or at least I don't think I have) but I'm pretty sure that it's trance aswell. Blank and Jones and ATB are both either trance/ambient (I would say mostly anthem/progressive but they don't really have a set sub-genre).

The only way I can understand a person liking cheese/scouse trance is if they were only getting into the stuff, you really shouldn't go near it - there is far, far better stuff out there. Anyway, most people start out on mainstream trance like DJ Sammy, Scooter, Special D etc.. but should eventually move on to the better stuff. For beginners, I would recommend getting albums like 'the best of' or 'classics'.The Very Best of Euphoria or Gatecrasher Classics are good examples; I guarantee you'll love them ; ). It basically helps you catch up on the last 10 years or so.

I've never heard DJ Gulit - In My Dreams but will check it out :).

Thanks for the suggestions! Had another question about the Symphony track by Hybrid. As per the suggestions from darktremor, I searched for, and downloaded "Finished Symphony" by Hybrid. Is "Symphony" different? And if it is, is it much much better than "Finished Symphony"? The one I downloaded sounds pretty cool. And I also got DJ Icey's Bass Mix of "Beach Ball"...is there a better version of that one? This mix didn't seem to fit the description of #5 on darktremor's list, was wondering if that was the wrong version to get...

Correction, "Beach Ball" was #4 on that list ;)
I did get #5 - Papua New Guinea by FSOL. That's a nice one.

The DJ 'Icey' mix of Beachball is horrible, doesn't do the original any justice whatsoever, it doesn't even retain any of the qualities that the original brought. Don't get any mixes of this one, only the original will do. Anyway it's a really great song, totally unique and a joy to listen to - one of the nicest to listen to for sure.

Agreed, the original is one of my all-time favorite songs. NEVER get a remix.
And the vocals are just fine on that track, I like both the vocal and instrumental versions..

It's actually one of the few songs which can't have a remix anyway. It's just so unique to Nalin & Kane that any other artist would probably just ruin it.

Maybe that applies to a hell lot of songs... and maybe that also explains why there is so much of cheese out here also.

anyone ever heard of 'Armin van Buuren- blue fear' or 'dj garry dream universe' i like the list but some of the best are missed out

I have indeed. Blue Fear didn't make it because, while it is a very good song, it isn't THAT amazing. Besides, I think Communication is well better anyway.

I actually had Dream Universe in at the start, but I think the rest on the list are just a little better. Tough call though, I really like that one.

Anyway, this list is still very much a work in progress and I obviously can't have heard every trance song ever, so there's bound to be a few missing. What songs are missing anyway?

not many you have a good list
oakenfield -southern sun(tiesto mix)
warrior-warrior
Aalt-Taurine[Super 8 Rmx]
marco v - loops an tings 03
i lost my hard drive so they are only a few but il get back to you

Oakenfold - Southern Sun: Already there.. #49
Warrior - Warrior: I think it's a good song but I'd much prefer If You Want Me. The vocal & non-vocal versions are both better IMO.

Don't think I have the other 2 but I'll look around for them, thanks.

Note: Pertaining to the track Finished Symphony:

I managed to listen to both tracks, and Symphony is NOT the same as Finished Symphony: Symphony is a much stronger track, there is great difference.

Is it the song off Northern Exposure II: East Coast Edition? I have a couple of versions but the one I'm thinking of is almost 13 minutes long :/ ..It seems to be one you're talking about, besides, if it's not you can send it to me on Soulseek :).

I've got both Symphony and Finished Symphony and listened to them both about 25 times each. They're essentially the same song. Symphony off Northern Exposure 2 - Eastcoast Edition lasts around 12:40 and I'm pretty sure that's the one. (It's the slightly better version).

I have a few suggestions:

If you're going to put a Scooter production on there why not go with "Mesmerized"? It's my personal preference really.

And I think Simple Minds- Theme From Great Cities (Minimalistix Remix) deserves a place on the list too.

Trance-Atlantic is actually a really good tune, better than Mesmerized IMO. It's very hard to believe that Scooter (the crazy German techno group which songs include "Hello!", "I'm Your Pusher", "Faster Harder Scooter" and.......... "How Much is the Fish"- I mean, seriously, WTF!!) created this!

Simple Minds - Theme From Great Cities (Minimalistix Remix) is ok, certainly not top 100 for me.

Whenever I am looking for intelligent choices for trance (and related genres) tracks I always come back to the lists of and debates between darktremor and tranceaddict. I was introduced to EDM through the music of Orbital and the Orb (innovators in EDM in its infancy), so I've never understood the (popular) fascination with formulaic 4/4 trance - I am glad your posts have taken the "big" DJs to task. If you don't know it, check out Orbital-Out There Somewhere, Part 2. One of the better simple openings to a song in my opinion. On the second disk of that album (Insides, US ffrr) check out Sad But New and The Box (there are 2 "hidden" songs after 5 mins on The Box that are great - i.e., the harpsichord riff at 9 mins). Other good older tracks, FSOL's Cascade (more ambient/junglish) and Break & Enter by Prodigy. You have both brought up Finished Symphony from Hybrid - I think Wide Angle is a pretty complete album - I am also a fan of both Beachcoma and Sinequenon, prob not top 100 material, but worth many listens. Caveat: Not sure how all these tracks fit into the trance classification scheme, so there comparability to those on the lists is debatable. Also, thanks darktremor for the mention of Mylo-Drop the Pressure and Akufen-Deck the House, both great/innovative tracks that I just discovered. Thought I'd throw out my two bits and I'm interested to hear your thoughts.

Also, Fortunato and Montressor-Imagine (from an older Digweed album), if you don't know it, find it, one of my alltime favorite tracks. BT has come up a couple times in these posts, too (I don't think he gets enough credit for his work, I prefer most of his tracks to Tiesto, PvD, Armin, et al anyday, but that may be genre preference) - other tracks of his definitely worth mentioning: Nocturnal Transmission, Poseidon, and Divinity from Ima and Nectar from ESCM (great hard hitting kick to open)

ok guys now i need some direction here. I tried this with darktremor before with no luck because my tastes were too erratic for him to make any suggestions to me. So i need suggestions based on my highest trance values bc i am completely enveloped by this music now. So take a look at what my best are and give me some suggestions. One of the things that is so tough about darktremors list is the fact that he has so many tracks on that list so picking out a gem that suits my taste is daunting. So heres what i have:

#1 Solid Globe-North Pole
#2 The Thrillseekers-Synaesthesia
#3 Push-Universal Nation
#4 Solid Globe-Sahara
#5 Above & Beyond-Air For Life
#6 Yahel-Voyage
#7 Salt Tank-Eugina
#8 Petter-These Days
#9 Beautiful Things-Andain
#10 James Holden-Horizons

So thats the idea give me suggestions along the same lines. North Pole is just amazing to me maybe you guys dont agree but i wish i knew of some other solid globe tracks bc they just tend to set the bar pretty high. Universal Nation has the best return from break that i have ever heard in a trance song. Im not gonna go on and on about what i like because i want more like a bloodthirsty dog. So give me some good ones.

Well you could just look at the list and download the songs off that, that is the one of the main uses for it after all. Anyway here's a few random ones, some are similar to the tracks you metioned and some that are not on the list:

Veracocha - Carte Blanche
Ascension - For a Lifetime
CRW - I Feel Love (Pete Pitchard Mix)
BK - Revolution
Push - Strange World (Tranquilo's Underwater Kingdom Mix)
KOTA - Waiting (Mike Koglin vs Darren Tate Remix)
Andain - Summer Calling
DJ Tiesto - Ice Rain
Above and Beyond - No One on Earth (Gabriel and Dresden Mix)
Ayla - Angelfalls
Ferry Corsten - Punk
Thrillseekers - Dreaming of You (Svenson & Gielen Remix)
Blank & Jones - Cream
Mauro Picotto - Lizard (Megavoices Mix)
Tony De Vit - The Dawn
Qattara - The Truth (Coufsat Mix)
Kamaya Painters - Far From Over
Push - The Legacy

Try them and tell me which ones you like and maybe I'll be able to help you out a little more.

Alright lets see here: Already had Carte Blanche, Strange World, Summer Calling, No One On Earth, Angelfalls, Dreaming Of You. BKs Revolution has a nice pulse to it, KOTA Waiting is pretty well balanced, and I really was impressed with both Ferry Corstens Punk and Pushs The Legacy. I really never got into Mauro Picottos Lizard. I am curious to know whether or not you know of anymore songs from Solid Globe that are worth looking at. And I cant seem to get enough of Push Universal Nation; gets the blood flowing. So maybe you could find a few that are modeled around that song in particular. Im sorry I gave you such a wide range to come up with ideas for. Anything else you have I will most definetly try.

Ok well I presume we're talking about the Ferry Corsten mix of Universal Nation.. I know, such an amazing breakdown!!. Check out "The Very Best of Ferry Corsten" which should give you a good idea of him. Sorry I don't really know enough about Solid Globe to give you reliable recommendations from them so I'd just try to get anything under their name. Here's some more tunes with a slightly harder edge (Very few songs are EXACTLY like Universal Nation so you should probably look elsewhere tbh):

Gate - Iron Eden
Signum - What Ya Got For Me
Simple Minds - Theme From Great Cities (Minimalistix Remix)
Delerium - After All (Svenson & Gielen Remix)
4 Strings - Diving
M.I.K.E - Massive Motion
Mario Piu pres. DJ Arabesque - The Vision
Balearic Bill - Destination Sunshine (DJ Tiesto dub)
Marc Et Claude - LA (Moonman's Flashover Mix)
Max Graham - Airtight
Binary Finary - 1998 (PvD Mix)
Push - Tranzy State of Mind
Minimalistix - Close Cover
Evoke - Arms of Loren 2001 (Ferry Corsten Remix)
Ferry Corsten - Rock Your Body Rock
Scott Mac - Damager 02
DT8 -Destination
Sash - Encore Une Fois
Ferry Corsten - Fire
DuMonde vs Lange - Memory
Cascade - Transcend (Moonman Remix)
Andy Hunter - Go

You are correct, the version of Universal Nation that I have just so happens to be the Ferry Corsten mix. I appreciate your response for sure. In the mix downloading your new recommendations. Much appreciated and Ill be back with you.

Actually WTWThink your right, BT is an awesome producer in his own right, one of the forgotten innovators in trance IMO. You just have to look through his tracks to realize how much he has contributed: Flaming June, Godspeed, Mercury and Solace, Dreaming, Force of Gravity, Blue Skies, Namistai, Anomaly, Loving You More etc... He's a far better producer than he is a mixer though, probably the worst of the top group (not that he's bad, just the others are far better) which is probably why he isn't as well known and doesn't get as much credit as Tiesto, PvD, Ferry Corsten, Sasha, Armin etc.., those are all-round DJs.

Fortunato and Montresor - Imagine: off Golobal Underground it's a nice track alright, very easy on the ears, soft background vocals, all in all a very nice song.
Future Sound of London - Cascade: One of my favourite ambient tunes and one of my favourites off Northern Exposure I North after Out Of Body Experience. Typical FSOL sounds, very unique.
Prodigy - Break & Enter: I don't like this one. Not actually trance at all and I'm not much of a techno fan to say the least lol. It's just so random and doesn't seem to have any melody, just not my style at all.

You guys gotta come up with trance, techno and dance songs that would be good for raves. I'm tired of doanloading songs that are too soft. I want the good stuff. Before posting up a song for a suggestion, think and imagine if you see people getting together and clubbing on that particular song. Thanks.

Ummmmm......no. Don't mind this guy.

Gee, TranceAddict, I'm a real fan. Sat rivited to my seat reading that epic and gruelling debate with DarkTremmor. I agree, TRANCE MUST NOT DIE!, it's all I listen to. I tried, albeit without much success, to download the picks from your list. You see the problem is that I am trying to make ends meet with a pre-historic 56K dialup connection. Now I already have a small trance collection of about 400 songs.
)
1)(please)(5x+98768) download the torrent of the supposed top 300 trance songs from www.torrentz.com, you can leave out the ones you've already got, (probably most of them), and tell me what the pick of the lot is, so as to point me in the direction of quality trance.

2) What do you think of ATB? I love his pre-2000 work, especially this song:
ATB vs. Faithless: Dont Stop the Insomnia.
Download it and check it out for me will you.

3) With regards to making trance music, is there anywhere one can learn the art? A good website perhaps? I managed to get myself Ejay Dance 6, a descent trance generating program.

4) Also i would really appreciate it if you could tell enlighten me as to what trance music is good for "beginners", i just know my friends would salivate all over trance.

Thanks dude, you rock!

Lol well first of all, get off your 56k shitness!! These days it's probably cheaper to get broadband anyway.. if you want all those incredible DJ sets, you'll need it. Hehe me and darktremor had something going there, but some idiot had to come in and kill all the momentum lol. Oh well.......

If this is what your talking about, then stay away!! I really wouldn't trust anything that doesn't even have songs like Café del Mar, Insomnia, Born Slippy, For an Angel, Ayla, Suburban Train and virtually any widely regarded trance classic. Looks like it was just randomly thrown toghether and looks 80% cheese really. Trust me, don't bother.

Yeah ATB is generally a pretty good trance artist, he does have some quality tunes to his name. I don't like Don't Stop vs Insomnia much, I don't see much point in these 'vs' songs anyway. Both of the original songs are much better, especially Insomnia... I love that one.

I don't know of any trance websites where you can learn the art of producing, Google it and you might find something. Most of the major DJs discovered trance on their own, messing around with sound effects and the like.. You can't just "learn" the art of making trance, and then expect to magically produce trance music just like that. You have to experiment. Regarding software, try Ableton Live, it's a great PC alternative to decks, if you dont have them, use that instead. Some of the major DJs use it (Sasha, PvD, BT, Armin etc.).

Trance classics (Various sub-genres):

Delerium - Silence
4 Strings - Into the Night
Sundance - Won't Let This Feeling Go
Mauro Picotto - Komodo
CRW feat. Veronika - Like a Cat (Tillmann Uhrmacher Remix)
Grace - Not Over Yet (Perfecto Remix)
Sash - Ecuador
Pulser - Cloudwalking
Matt Darey - From Russia With Love (Solar Stone's Red City Remix)
Watergate - Heart of Asia
Ayla - Ayla part II
PPK - Resurection
DT8 - Destination
Freefall - Skydive (I Feel Wonderful)
Andy Moor vs. Above & Beyond - Air For Life
Planet Perfecto - Bullet in the Gun
BBE - 7 Days And 1 Week
Ballroom - 4a.m.
Nalin & Kane - Open Your Eyes
Dejure - Sanctuary
DJ Tiesto - Suburban Train
Ferry Corsten - Fire
Darude - Feel the Beat
Ian Van Dahl - Castles in the Sky (Wippenberg Remix)
Zombie Nation - Kernkraft 400
Agnelli & Nelson - Hudson Street (New York Remix)
Delerium - Underwater (Above and Beyond Mix)
Hampshire & Nysse - Eternal Voices (Airwave's Revenge Mix)
..... ohh, and pretty much whatever I didn't mention that's on the list or I mentioned earlier- I don't wanna repeat myself. Phew!

Thats enough to make them come all over trance nevermind salivate!! :P.

how can you leave off MUSIC by DARUDE? i do not like intrumental Trance but this was a classic.

DJ Encore ft.Engelina- I See Right Through To u
Kosheen - catch
Sylver - Turn the tide Lyrics
Sylver - Skin Lyrics
Sylver - Forgiven Lyrics
Sylver - Forever in love Lyrics

to name but a few. vocal trance is simply the best.

Simple as.... the 100 songs already up there are better. That doesn't mean it's a bad song because it's pretty good, just not good enough (Music, that is).

But ARRRRRGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! Slyver - Forever in Love just makes me want to hide in embarrassment :$... absolutely gets a cheese-o-meter rating of 10. I really don't have the guts to check out those other "Slyver" songs after hearing that TBH. Kosheen - Catch is ok BUT I've always loved DJ Encore - I See Right Through To You I just never knew the name of the track.. definetly a great song and I might consider putting it up. THANKS :-) !!

Vocal trance can be the best but can just as easily be the worst... it's just that there's so much crap vocal trance out there it's incredible. But there is about 5% which are absolute gems. Try some of these:

Redd Square - In Your Hands
Sasha & Maria - Be As One
Andrea Britton - Am I on Your Mind
Noemi - In My Dreams
Space Brothers - Shine (Commie Remix)
Lasgo - Something (Flip & Fill Remix)
Agnelli & Nelson - Everyday
Karaja - She Moves
Paul Van Dyk - We Are Alive
Divine Inspiration - The Way (Svenson and Gielen Remix)
Plummet - Damaged (Antillas Remix)
Ian Van Dahl - Try
Three 'N One - Pearl River
Emmie - I Won't Let You Down
Matt Schwartz - Can You Feel
Gigi D'Agostino - Lamour Toujours
Flip & Fill - Shooting Star
Grace - Not Over Yet
DT8 - Winter
IIO - Rapture

Wow what a discussion! Im 18 years old and have never liked trance...until last year when a mate of mine showed me some of his "phat music". After having gone out and bought countless trance music compilation albums which i personally think are amazing I'm hooked. I agree with the majority of things being said. Trance music is in a dire state at the moment and the releases lately have been near diabolical. Crazy Frog? Chico? Please... The club charts are in a state and every time I go clubbing in Eastbourne (south east coast of England) the amount of danceable music with little to no lyrics is limited to around 1-2 songs a night with rap and r&b dominating the dancefloor.
The diversity within the rap industry is so poor and in my opinion (and someone will argue this with me no doubt) almost every rap song I've heard lately is either to do with going to prison or smoking weed and getting high. This isn't exactly a great message sent out to teenagers. The beats are almost identical and almost all of the latest rappers have either sold out to become more pop-oriented (Eminem anyone?) or just produce less and less decent songs.
This is also true within the dance music industry. Trance music has somehow transformed into repeating a phrase or sentence over and over again for 3 minutes. The early ideas of this were catchy and somehow decent enough to rock a dancefloor (Eric Pryde-Call On Me) but I can't stand a lot of the new tunes brought out in the "dance music" charts. How on earth Adagio for Strings is still there after so long is beyond me. Yes it's a good song and everything but the industry should be focusing on new talent rather than DJs and producers who have been there since the beginning of trance. (Not sayin Tiesto has been there from the beginning)
I think THE best trance song I have ever heard is Universal Nation-PUSH. Simply because everytime I hear this song the breakdown, the build-up and the pay-off is simply outstanding. I get chills down my back hearing it each time! There are a lot of songs out there which have amazing build-ups...but do not have a decent pay-off at the end and this disappoints me. This song has it all in my opinion and rates as one of my favourite trance songs of all time. I never really got into Cafe del mar-Energy 52 until I heard countless crappy remixes and finally found the Three'N'One remix and loved it. There are several trance songs which came out last year I think or in recent years which I really have grown to love, amongst all the crap brought out in the past couple of years regarding trance. These are:

Armin Van Buuren-Hymme=Reminds me so much of Adagio For Strings but I prefer this song much more due to the addition of beautiful sound effects and a better structure in the song overall.

Sunny Lax-Puma=I have no idea why I liked this song, pretty standard trance song but a gorgeous bassline and a decent enough addition to Armin's State of Trance list.

Deep Dish-Say Hello=Okay this might be me but aren't Deep Dish a house band? This is a fantastic trance song and I really like the vocals. Powerful and melodic song.

Strange World VS Raindrops (Mash-up Mix 2006)=I really liked this remix and thought the vocals worked really well with the song...every other song on the album I hated with the exception of the operation blade remix with the rapping.

There are other songs but they don't quite fall under the heading of trance. It's a shame that Hi-Tak-Say Say Say got released in the charts, I really liked that song when I heard it last year and then it goes and gets number 1...which is good...but has been played so much everytime I hear it I can't help but groan. I guess in a way this is true with trance. In a way if everyone was into trance and it was played countless times on the radio people would be sick to death of it. Thankfully it isn't. Trance music is so diverse and so many great ideas have come out of it that we need another breakthrough artist that isn't up his/her own backside and produces decent trance like there used to be. Dance music is going through a major transformation at the moment in my opinion and I'm not sure what the outcome will be like. A lot of artists have just taken old trance songs and added lyrics over the top. A lot of these ideas have faield miserably with the exception of 1 song i actually loved (listed above) I'm into a lot of different types of music. I mean I love dance music more than anything...simply because it IS so diverse and you can lose yourself in it and I'm tied between hard house and trance at the moment. there have been crossovers (Hard trance=Tidy Euphoria Disk 1...amazing) but that doesn't limit me to just liking that. Drum and Bass is good, certain happy hardcore tracks I do like and garage I like as well. House music is ok, I can stomach it but I don't like it THAT much. lol I think I will always be a trance addict despite what happens to the trance scene.
Someone said earlier on in this discussion (a year ago I think :| ) that there was something called Neo-trance? Kaito? I downloaded a few tracks of this Kaito guy...I really don't like it lol I hope trance doesn't turn into that! Then again I may have got the wrong artist lol

Yeah I pretty much agree with everything you said here and even though trance is in arguably its weakest stage ever you do get a few really good tunes each year. Probably my favourite trance song over the last year or two would be Armin Van Buuren - Shivers. Brings back memories of better times. He's probably been the most consistant of the big DJs IMO. I can't understand people's obsession with Tiesto's Adagio For Strings. Yeah maybe it would be good if there had been no remixes of it already - it's clearly a money spinner. Ferry Corsten's remix is quite frankly unbeatable and Skip Raiders - Another Day is superior aswell IMO but neither have achieved anywhere near the success of Tiesto's. Again Armin's Hymne (not Hymme) and Serenity (the Sensation White Anthem 2005)- two collaborations with Jan Vayne (not to be confused with cheese master Jan Wayne) and Deep Dish - Say Hello, Dogzilla - Without You aswell as a few others are a breath of fresh air TBH.

yello tranceAddict, its me back again. Am i right in saying that the more "cheese" trance tracks tend to attract new trance fans, while the more orthadox stuff lures them into the heart of trance at a later stage? THis tends to be the case, with me and with peers. So I know this is a bit...uh, cheesy... but could you possibly give me a list of the best cheesy trance. Cheesy, but descent nonetheless is what i'm looking for.

BTW i totally LOVED PVD's "for an angel". Left me on a high one would have difficulty attaining after smoking all the crack in South America. Could you possibly recommend anything bearing vague siliraties to that masterpiece? Dont give me another hundred items, i know you have better things to do, but perhaps just a select few. Arios.

Well alot of the time that is the case. It's the pop-trance or the extremely successful trance songs which most people get to hear... sometimes luring them into trance proper. I admit some cheesy stuff can be catchy and quite good but sometimes.. nearly always actually it just goes too far. I'll try but don't look at me if you get laughed at and repeatedly poked with sticks because some of this stuff can be too embarrassing to listen to with people within a 1 mile radius. If you want good songs IMO, just look at the ones towards the top of my list. Check out darktremor's aswell. For someting like For An Angel try Robert Miles - Children, and Fable aswell. Andy Hunter - Go, FSOL - Papua New Guinea and BT - Flaming June (PVD Mix).

Gigi D'Agostino - Lamour Tujours (actually really good and used to be one of my favourites)
Ian Van Dahl - Try (Michael Woods Remix)
The Mystery - All I Ever Wanted
Rhythm of Life - You Put Me in Heaven With Your Touch
Divine Inspiration - The Way (Svenson and Gielen Remix)
Flip & Fill - Shooting Star
Lasgo - Something
Dee Dee - Forever
Freefall - Skydive
Agnelli & Nelson - Everyday
Wip feat. Emmie - I Won't Let You Down
They're some of the best "cheesy" trance songs i can think of. Hope that helps.

In case there's room, I'd like to suggest The PQM's absolutely brilliant You are Sleeping (Luke Chabal's Vocal Mix). The song is semi-microhouse, or so it seems with senseless yet amazing vocals.

Aand [sic] welcome back.

I actually have a reply for this lurking somewhere on my hard drive. Or at least I think I do. I figure I have about three weeks to find it...
I hope your levels went well. Was it levels? Oh well... what I really want to know is whether or not you've had a migraine since you started staying away from aged food.

Not really... migrane now is triggered by just 'bout anything post major jamming sessions with books... the weather, the monitor, the pollution... aah the pain of success. :D, the levels (aka Pre Medical Test aka Gateway to Med School or any fancy name you can think of) were good. Finally I'm in. Thanks, btw... it's nice to be back.

As for cheese, I think you were right. And I've really got to revive my brain. It's dead. Or so I think. Oh, irony.

Well, neo-trance. Actually, it's right off of James Holden's DJ-mix, Balance 005 (which is pretty much the definitive "SO THIS IS NEO-TRANCE!" album).

But I totally agree, it's one of the best trance tracks of all time. To add to the awesomeness, it even has an amazing backstory. The background vocal samples in the track come from the 70's EVP experiments, in which people tried to hear the voices of ghosts on electronic recordings. They actually found static that sounded like words (I don't personally believe they were "spirit voices," as the researchers recorded for months on a large number of machines, and only found tiny, random snippets here and there), and some of those words were sampled by the PQM.

Aah. Innovation! Personally I think it is one of those they-will-save-trance songs that you keep hearing once in three blue moons. Neo-trance is... pretty loose a genre, isn't it? As such, I was unable to grasp a 'distinctive' (for the lack of a better term) template to it.

Which is the best part about it, I'd say.

Jonas Steur - Silent Waves.
You HAVE to listen to this gem.

Desperately searching for trance track popular on Ibiza in July/August '96-no vocals, piano-like sounds, heard a lot in club near marina- El Divino? Vague info to use but that's all I really have to offer-Don't think it was Manumission. It was light and dreamy-if Chopin were alive and composing Electronica, it's something he'd have done. Help me soothe my craving ears and mind.
sterz7@yahoo.com

Hey "Trance addict".This is Wesley from South Africa.I really like some of these inclusions in your list:
*"William Orbit - Adagio for Strings(Ferry Corsten Remix)"[Darktremor doesn't rate it high enough].
*"Warrior - If You Want Me"[I agree that the Non-Vocal version is the best.
*"Ian Van Dahl - I Can't Let U Go (Push Remix)"[M.I.K.E/Push Rules]
I do however think that a few songs deserve a place:
*"The Quest - C Sharp"[# 200 on Darktremor's list.]
*"Moon Project - Moments are Forever"[a "M.I.K.E" Production]
*"Gouryella - Ligaya (Vocal Version)"

Thanx

Yo TranceAddict
Just were wandering why these Tracks weren't on your list:

*"Cosmic Gate - Raging(Flutlicht Remix)"
*"Tillman Urmacher - On The Run(Minimalistix Remix)"
*"Reflekt - Need to Feel Loved"
*"Tranquility Base - Razorfish (Above & Beyond's Banging Mix)"
*"Oceanlab - Clear Blue Water"
*Yael - Devotion (Armin's Mix)"

Thanx, Please Reply?

Hello......?

Dude. He hasn't been on here for an eternity. Just let this list rest here as one of the great originals. He won't answer.

someone twll me the best epic trance or anthems please

no.

Lol. Read Blind's rant against fluffy trance for more, and you'll find some tracks listed there too. You can try them out, but strictly at your own risk. What you want isn't really trance, its watered down pop trance for the masses.

I gotta agree with darktremor on this one.

This is not a trance top 100, this is a eurotrance top 100. Most of the tracks here aren't even close to entrancing - barring maybe Xpander, Age Of Love, and the other real trancy stuff that did have commercial success.

Blind has a much more accurate list for *trance*:

http://www.listology.com/content_show.cfm/content_id.27520/Music

alright you cant tell me the original version is better than this..http://youtube.com/watch?v=as-pG64v-to&feature=related

not so sure what is wrong with tiesto...hes doing it and none of us are...

Well it's been nearly 4 years since I've logged into this place haha. Needless to say my tastes have changed and my music collection has at least quadrupled since and I have gone deeper into other realms of electronica and other music. I haven't really been following the trance scene for the last few years now but I think it's fair to say I've consumed enough trance to last me an eternity. I will always have a soft spot for the good oldskool trance stuff :).

I should really change/add new tracks in here but it's fun to look back and see myself 4 years ago. As a few of you have pointed out this doesn't cover alot of the other trance subgenres. A more accurate title for this would be "100 Greatest Trance Anthems (pre 2005)" and remember it's all subjective but I still think it's a pretty good list in that regard. All these tracks are beastly no matter which way you look at it! And I might add classifying alot of electronic music into specific genres is an absolute nightmare!

So long live trance and electronic music and roll on PRODIGY on friday!! Best band ever :DD - Brian

now, this is what i call A TRANCE LIST!