0012. Over-Rated Artists

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  • 1. The Grateful Dead - Yeah, the last time they focused, somewhere near the dawn of the seventies, they could actually produce good music. Ever since, however, they have coasted on endless diminishing returns. While I am saddened by Garcia's death, I am very grateful this band's trip is through.
  • 2. The Dave Matthews Band - They just can't seem to pull it together. When the music was a boring retread of item 1 above, the lyrics were alright. When the music actually got a bit interesting, Matthews started believing he was a poet. He ain't, and his lyrics on Crash induce giggles of embarrassment over his attempts to wax poetic. If it didn't sound so much like folk music, of course, it wouldn't matter, but the music couches the words, forcing one to listen. Obviously, this either forces one to laugh or become a fan.
  • 3. Pink Floyd - Yeah, Dark Side is a good album. Just how far will Floyd fans let them stretch this one musical concept?
  • 4. Led Zeppelin - IV is great, but their place in rock music history is greatly over-esteemed.
  • 5. Joan Baez - Great voice. Now if she could only manage to sound like she understands what she's singing. Oh, and please, no more Dylan voice imitations.
  • 6. Smashing Pumpkins - When Nirvana left, why couldn't people just let them go? Billy is as pretentious as he believes he is brilliant. Some fashes of genius, but an awful lot of fool's gold.
Author Comments: 

More to come...

These artists are all overrated, especially Dave Mathews. What is with all of the college kids loving Dave Mathews? Personally, I think it sucks ass!

Floyd and Zeppelin overrated? Give me a break! The Dead, yes. Matthews, yes. Baez makes me want to jam forks in my ears. But Page and Waters are both brilliant. -Danny Thweatt http://www.sanctifiedpress.com

Floyd is certainly over-rated, though they did have a good (if brief) heyday which produced some good (not great) albums. As for Zeppelin, la vie. I love a few albums, but I do not hold them in the esteem most reserve for them (best rock band of the 70s, etc.). Neither band are terrible, and both have produced some good music, but both are also horribly over-rated.

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

Name any rock act who was not influenced by Zepplin. Rap even samples them.

Influence = Quality ?

You overstate your point (didn't hear much Zep influence on Tricky's debut, Autechre's Tri Repetae ++, Primal Scream's Screamadelica, Blur's Parklife, or Sonic Youth's Daydream Nation, to name a few off the top of my head), but the gist of your comment is correct. LZ is an *extremely* influential band. I won't argue that.

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

I don't consider Zeppelin overrated. First of all they had some of the best music out there while at the same time influencing the whole rock genre for generations to come. In Zeppelin's place I think you should put someone like the Beatles or Oasis. I do agree with the choice of Floyd, Pumpkins, and Dave is a given.

I'm glad we agree on a few!

I have admitted that Led Zeppelin is extremely influential, and I'll even give you that they created some very good music (IV is on my top 100 albums list). They are, however, often treated as rock gods, on par with the Beatles, The Rolling Stones, and The Who. I simply disagree. They were not quite as great as most would proclaim them.

And no, neither Beatles or Oasis will join this list ;). The Beatles are as good as their reputation implies, while Oasis is largely viewed as a joke in America, which makes it very hard to be over-rated.

Thanks for the comments!

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

I would argue that Zeppelin is on par or greater than the Beatles in terms of 'influence', (musical merit could be argued) but to suggest that the Stones or Who are more influential than Zep is laughable...especially the Who, their US album sales at about a fifth of Zeppelin's has to be some indicator of influence.

i have just one question: are you people musicians? do u even know what good music FEELS and not sounds like? you have a long way to go if you're just the no. 1 tower records customer. don't judge music with your cd player... try playing DMB, the dead, led zep, or the pumpkins on your guitar, pinao or whatever. then maybe you'll finally know what you are talking about.

I agree with antigravity that Zep and Floyd maybe shouldn't be here, however I don't think he needed to be an ASSHOLE about it. I dont know who you think you are pal, but you dont dis respect people on Listology. Especially lbangs or any other person. You're a chump antigravity.

Thanks, jblack. I do think Zep and Floyd are good bands, only over-rated. I have no problem with anybody, including Antigravity, disagreeing with me. I do, however, disagree with the very foundation Antigravity's comments seem to be based upon, as I noted below.

Again, thanks.

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

Led Zeppelin are held in such high regard by everyone except the most iconoclastic of rock critics that they can be both overrated and great at the same time,which is the case.Pink Floyd is perhaps more overrated because they arent nearly as great. For overrated I'll go with Elton John,The Eagles and the Doors.

As to Led Zeppelin, you nailed the issue. They have some killer albums, but they also tend to show up in top five of Best Artists Ever polls, and that's just a bit much, in my personal opinion.

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

Even if we weren't friggin musicians we are allowed to have our own damn opinions instead of having some elitist psycho come ranting and raving about what's right and what's wrong.

Unless, of course, musicians only make music to allow other musicians to admire their technical skill, in which case the entire recording industry is in deep financial trouble.

Thanks for the defense. If only musicians can comment on the artistry of music, we are going to be in deep trouble indeed. Many jazz-rock fusion musicians are some of the best players around. I still wouldn't pay to hear half of it (10% of it if you exclude Miles Davis).

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

Somehow, I don't think the number one Tower Records customer's favorite CD of last year was Joseph Arthur's Come to Where I'm From...

Point blank, musicians often make the worst music critics. They tend to judge music on how difficult it is to play. One of the best guitarists I have ever heard in my life would make your head spin. He could chase the frets like nobody's business. As an artist, however, he was an utter failure. Why? Because he couldn't write a decent melody to save his life, and his playing was bloodless. He had no idea how to inject his great playing with a single CC of emotion, and as a result, his tunes were little more than musical masterbation.

It ain't just about being able to play chords; art is a synergistic stew, and being able to operate an intrument is just a small piece of okra in the spicy gumbo.

Hell, if it was really that important, then how does Bob Dylan fit into the scheme of things? His singing is hardly 'proper,' and various harmonica players have complained about his harp playing.

Discover this secret, and you're closer to seeing the larger picture, my friend.

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

Well Les, I think Dylan is over rated (horribly), but I respect him and understand the importance of the impact he has had on the industry. And yes, I'm a musician as well. I find myself to be some what a reliable guide to determining good and bad music. Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd may be over praised, but over rated they are not. You referred to Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon as being their best work. Well, thats your opinion and I RESPECT that. However, I can name about four albums I like better than that "over rated" work. One being my view as their masterpiece, Animals.Led Zeppelin I, II, and II, and Houses, Physical, and In Through The Outdoor I like much more than the over rated inflated IV. But I can be nice about it. I'm sorry, I'm really pissed at that one cat. To each his own sure, but dont be dick antigravity.

I'm with you all the way on "Animals" being the best Floyd album (in fact, I think I might go write a list now :)). I think the "overrated" attribute comes from people who haven't really heard too much of Floyd.

Then in this case, my friend, you are very wrong. I have heard tons of Floyd, and quite often, I might add. The overrated attribute often comes from people like myself who actually like the band, but find it very difficult to stomach their top three position on every poll for best band that seems to be released.

You can disagree, but it is a bit annoying to imply that those that don't agree with you have simply not listened to the band enough.

End of lecture. :)

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

wow, you people DO reply fast. im surprised. fine, fine, i apologize if my "hasty" statement hurt your feelings jblack or lbangs. i wasn't aware that you really are serious about these lists. i guess i should have been more "tactful". anyway, that's done and i suppose i got my message across...though in a very awful way apparently. well anyway,who said that musicians often make the worst critics? that might have been a bit inacurrate. ive been through a dozen bands, and i guess that the best people to ask whether your music is good or bad are musicians. im pretty sure that if the "no. 1 tower records customer" (used as a metaphor, not intended to offend any of you) told jerry garcia he sucked at music, he would take it more lightly than if bob dylan told him he sucked. see my point? im sorry if you don't, i mean no ill-intended remarks. and also, musicians don't base their judgements on the difficulty of playing the song on his/her instrument. that's just incorrect. i'd rather play an easy song that sounds good, rather than play an yngwie malmsteen-like creation that sounds awful. jblack, you said that im a chump and i can live with that. ill try not to disrespect people in listology but pls don't disrespect musicians too. before i became a musician, i was a fan of music myself like you and all i can say is that it has broadened my view on certain areas of music. you can talk all you want about how big of an asshole i am, but all im saying is that maybe if you just broadened your view on music you can see what im talking about. lbangs- no disrespect intended, the freedom of speech is a wonderful thing

"When the music actually got a bit interesting, Matthews started believing he was a poet. He ain't, and his lyrics on Crash induce giggles of embarrassment over his attempts to wax poetic" -Oh yeah, lbangs... before you disrespect any other artists' work/s like dissing dave matthews' poetry. why don't you post some of your poetry here and show me us musicians how good a poet you really are that you say make fun of dave's poetic skills. you know what they say.... only those great enough to be up in the clouds can spit down on the lesser beings on the ground. sometimes opinions can suck, no? ;)

If I believe that you don't have to be a musician to be a music critic, why would you assume that I believe you have to be a poet to be a poetry critic?

I've never posted poetry here because Listology never really struck me as the forum to do this in. But ask, and ye shall receive.

Trail

Frozen tears glazing the air
Settle as a substitute on my unfeeling face.
Maybe when years divide me from this second
I'll feel the sorrow you can not trace
Through my muddy eyes.

Only a month ago,
Your white arms twirled through the snow
And dazed my mind
With visions of God and home
And sex on clouds.
I never allowed the dreams to pile
Into a mountain I thought I might climb.
I shot every whim down.

Survivors carry the weight of the dead
Miles without a thought
And only cry
When the bodies are long dust.

In a hour,
I set out alone.

3-1-01


Savor

My song
Is simply the whistling of air
Emerging from the hollow
Bound within my bones.

She always smelled of vanilla.
I always sank within the savor
Of her blossoms
Of sweet melted skin.

She knew the history
I was creating.

I could howl
Until the weight of my streaming sorrow
Forced down the moon
Beneath the horizon.
She wrote verse
For my nocturnal noise.

And the evening
And the morning -
The sixth day...

The jigsaw is silent,
Yet nothing fits.

My love
Is simply the hastening of air
Emerging from the hollow
Bound within my bones.

But she always sweated vanilla.

3-5-01

I've loads more if you're really interested...

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

A typo - The "?" after "sixth day" above should be "...".

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

Antigravity is back in good graces I guess. I probably over reacted. I'm a defender of the listologists, and I may have jumped the gun. SORRY. Les, the petry you just submitted seems a little erratic (is that how you spell that?). Some portions of it seem brilliant in its fluent timed delivery, and some of it seems to be written by a 14 year old junior high girl. Mixed reviews from me. Still, some portions are magnificent.

By the way antigravity, you're not an asshole, I was just hot for a minute. I take it back, forgive me. I too am a musician and I respect musicians and music lovers as well. Its all good. Lets keep rockin'!!!!

Since I can't begin to comment constructively on poetry (although I particularly liked "But she always sweated vanilla"), I'll fix the typo. I assume "I?ll feel the sorrow you can not trace" is also a typo I can fix?

And if you want to submit more of these, we do have that "custom genre" feature. :-)

You should create an area where we can submit short stories and poetry. I'd be down with that

I'd really like that. I know I am not the only writer on the site, and I would love to read the work of other posters.

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

I hesitate to add another dedicated genre beyond movies/books/music/television. Do the custom genres (which are now searchable) not meet the need here? Here are some examples of how the custom genres are currently being used.

Oh, yes, the custom genres certainly work here. I suppose my post was more of a hope that folks might start using it to pop up an occasional poem.

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

Yes, that's also a typo. Thanks, Jim.

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

Fixed! I'm going to venture a guess that you cut-and-pasted these from Word? If so, the problem is that Word uses "smart-quotes" (which curl to be typographically attractive). These characters aren't true apostrophes or double-quotes, so when you paste them here they end up looking funny (they commonly display as question marks). In my experience the only foolproof way to clean Word text of these bizarro characters is to do an intermediate paste into Notepad, which only allows basic characters. Then recopy from Notepad to Listology.

Thanks for the corrections. As usual, you were absolutely right - I copied the text directly over from a Word document. Due to your help, I'll now know better in the future.

Again, thanks.

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

I've tried that, and Notepad retains the curly quotes. I have to do a find-and-replace to fix them.

Interesting. I wonder if it depends on which version of Windows you're running?

I had this problem with Windows 2000 and XP and with Word 97 and 2003.

in regard to the forum of assumptions and ill-rooted beliefs, i was wrong, lbang. u don't have to be a musician to be a music-critic, and u don't have to be a poet to be a poetry critic. that is what is called freedom. i was merely making a point of how well-formulated opinions are very often created through experience and not through misgiven concepts and theories which often turn out to be nothing more than spiteful exaggerations or understatements that do more harm than good. in other words, if you're not a classroom teacher, don't pretend to be the one standing behind the desk while you are badmouthing other teachers and school administrators' teaching skills. in the same way, if you know zilch about flying planes, don't begin to try to tell a pilot how to push the buttons. but wow lbangs, u ARE a poet. that is most excellent. though i am not the most brilliant rhymester, i find it very fascinating. i concede, u have every right to make fun of dave matthews' poetry.

hahaha! volumes and volumes of sarcasm are written in between the lines.... it doesn't take a genius to figure that one out :)

I find it curious that you and antigravity have the same password.

that's because he's kinda my twin bro. no, my real name isn't abel. man, you guys are old already...like over 30 or something. shit, we're not even 18 yet

But just barely over 30! Actually, if I recall correctly lbangs isn't over 30. The age range here seems to go from 14 or 15 and up. I don't know who our oldest member is, although I know of several in their 50s. Heck, we even have a user called "Grandma".

Correct. I'm still 27, though that probably does seem quite old to most folks under 18.

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

can anyone tell me who the boss is in listology? i mean, who is the grandfather-type figure of this place? is there some sort of "listmaster" who everyone sort-of worships? im just curious...

His name is gravity, and he's the law in these parts, pardner...

Nah, Jim runs the site, although the phrase 'grandfather-type' doesn't fit at all. He is over 18, however, so maybe... :)

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

Welcome antigravity/cain (I'm still not clear from your other posting if you guys are the same person or not)! I am the administrator of this facility (that's what I keep calling myself, anyway . . . and it's sort of a movie quote - any guesses?). And we're in big trouble if I'm even sort-of-worshipped by anybody. :-)

This is a difficult list to assess. Most of the artists on it have indeed made some fantastic albums, and yet many of the careers that followed are indeed greatly over-rated. Dave Matthews and Smashing Pumpkins are givens, of course, but what to do with The Grateful Dead and Pink Floyd, who have their fair share of great albums and more than their fair share of terrible albums?

So I suppose I really only disagree on Led Zeppelin.

I really enjoyed your poems, which seemed like anything but the work of a young girl. I notice others have said this, but you really should write professionally. Have you ever published any poetry or criticism?

Even when our opinions differ, I love the way you express them.

Thank you, sir Critic. I especially appreciate your comments on the poems.

Led Zeppelin is the one band every one disagrees with here. Perhaps I need to pull out those discs and give them another twirl.

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

Personally, I disagree on Pink Floyd, but I can see how someone would view them as overrated. The rest of the list I completely agree with.

I like Led Zeppelin, but they did not deserve all of the worship they get - certainly not on a level with, say, Dylan, The Beatles, or The Who. The lyrics, for one thing, were pathetic (am I the only person out there who absolutely loathes "Thank You"?) Robert Plant sounds like a banshee - his shrieks and wails do not appeal to me at all. He could occassionally sing well ("That's the Way," "Going to California") but he still doesn't deserve to show up on so many "Greatest Singer" lists. Live, the band was wildly uneven, and certainly nowhere near The Who.

*end rant*

Anyway, I do agree on that listing - appears no one else did! But it's good to see someone else feels the same way about them.

I recently discovered this list and its discussion. All I can say is, LOL! I think Jim's post about antigravity and cain having the same password is one of the funniest things on Listology. Jeez, antigravity was an interesting person....

I loved your poetry, lbangs, but like Jim said, I can't possibly write any intelligent critiques on poetry.

As for the list itself: My, this is one controversial list, as the discussion has proved. Here are my thoughts.

Joan Baez and Smashing Pumpkins - I am not particularly familiar with them, but I'd say that I agree that they are overrated.

Pink Floyd - I like their music, but if they have appeared on lists as one of the top 3 musical groups of all-time, then yes, I agree that they are overrated. I guess that places me in the same spot as you.

Led Zeppelin - I actually don't own any of their albums, but I love all the songs I've downloaded. Put me down as "undecided" for now.

Grateful Dead - Hmm, I love "American Beauty", but that was made at the dawn of the seventies, when "they could actually produce good music." For liking that album as much as I do, I should probably be more familiar with their work. I do love "Touch of Grey", however, which I believe was made in the 80's, so I guess I disagree with you there.

Dave Matthews Band - I've saved this one for last. As you may know, I am a fan of DMB, but I just think their music is fun. I know many people who take DMB way too seriously. I have also heard that their revenue from concerts made them the highest-grossing live band of the 90's, an honor that they probably don't deserve. So, yes, while I enjoy Dave's music, I guess I do think they are somewhat overrated.

However, as for your other comments on DMB, I don't think I agree. You thought that their music was a retread of that of "Grateful Dead"? Never heard that one before. You thought that the lyrics on "Crash" induced giggles of embarrassment? The lyrics on "Crash" are not the brilliance that some people make them out to be, but still... which lyrics specifically drove you to laughter? And finally, folk music that forces one to listen to the lyrics? I'll give you the folk music, but to be honest, I often have a hard time understanding what Dave is saying, so I have to consult some lyric sheets to get the words.

This list will probably have an adverse effect on me - I'll end up buying more Grateful Dead, Led Zeppelin, and Pink Floyd albums to see whether I agree with you about their overratedness. Oh well, you tried. :-)

Thanks!

I especially appreciate your compliment about the poetry. I do have the guts to hang it out there, despite what the, er, gemini might say, but it still is never fun to have one's verse compared to that of a junior high girl. Now I know how Jewel feels! (and, yep, I'm guilty of saying that about here)

One of curses of writing poetry, of course, is that most who do tend to hate anything they write over a year beforehand. We kid ourselves that we get better, and true to form, I think my poems are stronger now. That's life.

I'll add a few updated comments here, both to answer your comments and to avoid updating a list I'm rather attached to just yet...

Pink Floyd - Time has caused me to be a bit more kind. I now agree with many that Wish You Were Here is better than Dark Side, but I still think this good band is incredibly over-esteemed by many.

Smashing Pumpkins - I stand by my stance on them now more than ever.

Grateful Dead - Yes, American Beauty is one of the albums I was referring to. In fact, it is a wonderful work, and one I listen to often. Sadly, they grew oh so sloppy oh so soon afterwards...

Dave Matthews Band - You know, as time passes and many college kids grow and move on a bit, I think many people are getting rather realistic about this band, and they will probably lead to my removing them soon. You see, when I first posted this list, they were a regular on many 'My Ten Favorite Bands Ever' lists, and with all of one good album below their belt, I felt that was pushing the case WAY too far. Now, that's changing; people are starting to see the band in a light less divine, and that is how it should be.

As for goofy love lyrics, I submit exhibit A:

"Hike up your skirt a little more / and show the world to me"

Sorry. It is simply silly.

In my NSHO, natch, as is the entire list.

As for Led Zeppelin, well, I still feel they are somewhat over-rated, but plunging into vinyl lately, I find that some of my distaste was due to the weak CDs they've released. On vinyl, Led fares much better. In particular, the first album and Physical Graffiti have grown more impressive in my eyes (especially the latter). If I've finally 'seen the light' on anybody in any of my over-rated lists, film or music, it is with Led Zeppelin, and they will probably vanish soon.

Thanks again for the comments. Perhaps I'll give Dave another chance some time.

As for your record buying habits, go for it! Either I'll gain another ally, or you'll gain a new band to love. Either way, one of us wins! :)

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

Your goofy lyric from "Crash Into Me" reminded me of this misheard lyric I found once at www.kissthisguy.com (a site devoted to hilariously misheard lyrics).

Someone claimed that his mother misheard the lyric:

"Hike up your skirt a little more"

As:

"Pack up your skirt, little boy"

The following explanation is offered:

"This was actually misheard by my mother, who then claimed that the song was about Scottish people wearing kilts and getting into car accidents."

:)

You know, unlike most misheard lyrics, I can actually sorta hear that one! Hilarious!

My wife is among the legion who hears the Bee Gees More Than a Woman as Bald Headed Woman. After time, I can hear it now soon.

There is a song on Enya's Watermark a college friend of mine would play quite a bit. When the hours wore on into the night, I swear they were singing, "What you stop eating, eating, eating Skippy?" I constructed this entire backstory for the tune involving a little girl and her over-peanut-butter-indulgent brother. I bet every one of my college friends STILL hears that song with the Skippy lyrics!

Thanks for the laugh!

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

No, I hate typos!

Not WHAT you stop eating, but WON'T you stop eating...

Sorry. I'm into the last hour of the work week here, and my fingers are going much faster than my brain. It isn't much of a race, believe me...

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

The Doors sucked, I thought.

How are the Pumpkins overrated????? This band had to watch far less talented bands (musically and creatively) like Nirvana and Oasis take all the credit that the Pumpkins should've got. Is this a joke?

I'll toss the word 'talent' aside - talent doesn't always deliver the goods - and admit I would rather listen to Nevermind, Unplugged, Definitely Maybe, or What's the Story Morning Glory any day before popping in a Pumpkins album.

They were indeed a talented band, but IMO they were usually undone by Billy Corgan's unhinged ambitions, which he simply did not have the, what, discipline or -gulp- talent?, to achieve. In the end, they are a band of moments, but they wanted to be a band of albums of art.

They are not a bad band, but they certainly are far from being one of the best bands of the last decade, thus my over-rated tag.

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

Your opinion. You'd rather listen to Oasis or Nirvana eh? Hahahaha....they're hardly art are they??? The Pumpkins were certainly 'arty' and pulled it off spectacularly...wether you like it or not. They just have far more depth.

I'm wondering if you're going more on Corgan's dislikeable personality (like a lot of people) or the music itself? You don't seem to like Corgan much, but if you're going on the music then fine. Very easily one of the best bands of the 90's, and of all-time.

Hey, don't give the whole opinion to LBangs! I want to share it.

I'll share!

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

As you said, my opinion. Laugh all you want. I'll make more.

;)

Are Nirvana and Oasis art? Sure. You might think the music is bad art or shallow art, but it is certainly art. Or did you mean to capitalize that 'a'? If so, Corgan would certainly approve.

My opinion of the music, however, is based solely upon the music.

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

FWIW, I'd rather listen to Oasis or Nirvana any day of the week too! :)

Agreed with this list overall. Nice one, L!

Bless ya!

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

My friends have been reading your stupid list and laughing their fucking heads off! You don't appear to know much about music.

You also have a grudge against Billy Corgan you fucking liar, a shame you should put persona above musical quality. I'd appreciate it if you were more honest and upfront. [sigh] Very well.

it's also a sad state of affairs that people are brown-nosing you for your anti-Corgan stance. Keep listening to your Oasis and Nirvana my children *snigger*.

Most people do not know this, but I grew up in a suburb of Illinois. We were not the richest family; our wallpaper peeled every few weeks or so, and my sister and I often made games out of the pebbles and rocks in the back yard. We were one of the poorer families in the neighborhood, but we did not know it, so we were happy, I guess.

I was a friend with most of the other boys on my block. Sometimes, Jimmy would beat me up a bit, but for the most part, he was okay. Travis never gave me guff. Billy Corgan, though, was a little different. He never called me names or gave me wedgies, but he didn’t talk much either. He was alright, but he always made me feel a little uncomfortable.

One day, we were out stealing empty milk bottles from porches when we discovered Jed. Jed was a light brown dog with faded white streaks. He walked like he made out of string cheese. His scrawny body would flop every which way, and his one good ear always stood erect. When he stood still, with that ear cocked and his head twisted, you could swear he was intently listening to some song us boys couldn’t hear.

Jimmy naturally wanted to hit him with a stick, but I stood between him and the dog and took the blows myself. I liked Jed, and I think he took to me quickly. I brought him home, and my sister also liked him immediately. My ma didn’t cotton to keeping critters, so we hid Jed under the house using a few loose floorboards. The first few nights he whimpered a bit, but Jed was smart, and after a week, he never made a noise at night again.

Jed quickly became my best friend. He never gave bruises like Jimmy did, but he listened to me closely and never called me names like Travis would do every so often. We would often spend the afternoon wrestling in the weeds between the creek and my house. He learned to sit and to stay. He tried to pick up fetching, but he would always chase down the stick and run back to me excited, forgetting to bring the twig with him. I'd pet him any way. He was a good dog, and he never once tried to scratch me or nip at me. I think he really liked me too.

One day, Jed didn’t come home at night. I always set him loose before my ma got home from her job tending to the Worthys, and he would always jump back in through my bedroom window that was missing the bottom pane and had no screen. That way ma never knew about Jed. I was worried, but my sister said he might just be romping with the other dogs in our areas. That didn’t make me any better; I knew the other hounds around, and they were mean.

I finally crawled out of my window after midnight and went looking. I called out Jed’s name as loudly as I dared in the night. The houses were all pretty shabby, and many had missing windows. Everybody knew my ma, so I had to be pretty quiet. I remember it was cold, and the razor wind would blow through the hole in my worn coat and cause me to shiver. Still, I wouldn’t give up. I continued to search for my best friend through my foggy breath.

I rounded a corner a couple of blocks from my house, and then I heard a whimper. It sounded sad and desperate. I ran as fast as I could, and approached the rusted dumpster in the alley behind old man Carson’s store. I could hear Jed breathing, and I could even smell his wet dog scent. I never knew Jed to go through the trash much, so I was really surprised to hear him in the alley by the garbage.

When I walked past the dumpster, I could not believe my eyes. Jed was squirming on the pavement, while Billy Corgan sat beside him. He was smiling. He tried to say something to me, but he couldn’t, because he had Jed’s leg in his mouth.

He was eating Jed alive.

I ran. I couldn’t run fast enough. I should have stayed. I should have fought Billy. He had only eaten one leg and half of the other, and I would have loved Jed even without legs, but I was startled and scared, and I ran.

So, you are right. To this day, I hate Billy Corgan. I have never even heard his music, and I don’t have to. Even after he acquired leukemia and had to shave his head, I still hate him. He eats live animals, and he devoured my best friend, Jed. I loved that dog, and I have never had a dog, or even a good friend, since.

I am really impressed. Despite the fact I only talked about his music and tried to fake like I knew something about it, you realized that I have a grudge against Billy Corgan. You are the only person to see through my flimsy façade, and you have put me in my place by doing so.

I hate that your friends laughed at me. As I said, I haven’t really had a friend since Jed, and I would like to share some of yours. I guess they don’t like me none, though…

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

I'd continue brown-nosing and tell you how much I enjoyed this post, but Harlem Joe and friends' cruel laughter still rings in my ears from last time, and I'm afraid my fragile ego would shatter under another such withering assault, so I'm just going to go hide in the corner and cower.

       :-)     

Having confessed that Mr. Joe is largely right, I admit that the charge of other folks brown-nosing throws me for a loop. If I am not completely wrong, as I often am, don't brown-nosers hope to gain something from kissing butt? What in the world could anybody stand to gain from flattering me?

Thanks. Your check is in the mail.

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

I am really baffled by the logic of this post. Why do you assume that just because lbangs dislikes the Smashing Pumpkins, he must know nothing about their music and be judging this solely on Corgan's personality? I love plenty of musical artists, but I can conceive of other people disliking them based on the quality of their music. Are you really so narrow-minded that you can't accept that?

Oh, and lbangs knows more about music than almost anyone else I know. He and I will keep listening to Oasis and Nirvana; you can feel free to stick to Billy Corgan.

Come on lbangs. Everyone knows that if you don't agree with Harlem Joe, then you are a "fucking liar"! So I'm glad you matured and admitted that it's all about having a grudge against Mr. Billy. I mean, who in their right mind wouldn't listen to the Pumpkins "avant-garde" rock and acknowledge that it is ART of the first order? Hmmm, twentieth-century masters: Picasso, Faulkner, Ellington...oh! and Billy Corgan!

At Listology High School, Harlem Joe and his friends are the cool guys. When they laugh at you, then you need to change your mind and agree with them, in case you're not considered "cool" anymore: get it?

OK, that about covers it...

Johnny Waco

Listology High School would be an excellent movie or tv show...

Surely it would be better than Saved by the Bell!

Johnny Waco

I keep trying to get Listology High School to work as a Ramones song, but I am having zippo luck.

Which probably tells you all you need to know about the kind of kid I would be in the school... :)

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

< Yet another waste of space by harlem joe was here, but I snipped it. Seems he feels like Lbangs is censoring him, so what the heck, I'll let this through and then respond to it. ~Jim >

Just to set the record straight, LBangs hasn't been deleting your posts, I have. I do it because your insults were only amusing for a short time, and now they are boring. You can keep posting if you want, but I'm the only one that sees them (your posts sit in limbo until I either approve them or reject them). By all means, keep posting. Every time I delete one, sight unseen by anyone else, I smile a little at your expense.

..........damn I'm so hurt. FYI I thought it was either Ibangs deleting or him asking someone to do it. Ha! I also don't believe you're smiling at my expense when you remove my posts. I think you're lying.

Believe what you will.

Thanks, Jim!

I have never deleted somebody else's post from one of my lists, nor have I ever requested anybody to do so.

Jim runs the site and takes on the responsibility of helping keep matters civil. I don't envy him. It is not an easy task, and he does a terrific job.

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

:-) Thanks!

boooo to this list! Especially the Grateful Dead part. They produced some of their best music in the 80s...ever hear some of their mid-80s shows with Brent on keys? they are HOT.

led zep and pink floyd are amazing, but i agree they really are over-rated

My thoughts exactly. I own many albums by both. They made some terrific music. Best bands ever? I personally do not feel so...

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

I agree with Led Zeppelin, though I probably believe they're more overrated than you say. I think their first album is very good, but they went dowhill after that. The second album was decent, the third weak, the fourth barely saved by Stayrway To Heaven and Going To California. But that's just my opinion

I can't really comment on the others. I've only heard one Grateful Dead song (Ripple), one Dave Matthews song (Crash, which I hated, but it's not enough to base an opinion on the band from), and not a single Joan Baez or Smashing Pumpkins song.

I do, however, like Pink Floyd and think they've made brilliant albums. Everything before Syd Barrett left is overrated, but after that, they made great things.

Again, just my opinion. But that's what the discussions are for, aren't they? To discuss opinions...

My opinion on Led Zeppelin has shot up since getting many of their original albums on vinyl. They've all been remixed for CD, and they can't touch the original magic.

That being said, I think the band's grip on the critical love of the nation is slipping a bit. Maybe they are finding their proper level.

The ultimate Pink Floyd reality check may well be - what do you think of The Wall?

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

If that post was directed at me (the newest post confused me a bit), I'll say I like The Wall

It's my third favourite Pink Floyd album, right after Wish You Were Here and Meddle.

It's the first one I listened to, so that might be a reason why I like it so much.

I find that often, Floyd fanatics love The Wall, an album I find overblown and troubled at best. Usually, if the person I'm talking with loves that album, I usually slowly back out of any conversation about whether the band is over-rated and head for the door.

I'm glad people enjoy them so much, and I wouldn't want to steal joy. In my book, though, the fanbase is disproportionate to the quality of the band's output.

Having said that, yeah, Wish You Were Here is a great album... :)

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

Whoops! This post was in the wrong post and now is gone like a cool breeze...

according to every1 pink floyd and led zep were overrated. explain to me who was actually like them before they were famous? no1 they were original and amazing. just coz they are really big doesnt mean they r overated -_-

Not were. Are. Absolutely, Zep was originally under-rated. Now, the coin has flipped...

I'm not sure we can say the same about Pink. Dark Side of the Moon was not hurting for good reviews when it arrived...

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

Oasis, the most talentless band in history. The Sex Pistols, garbage! Led Zep, talented. Pink Floyd, BRILLIANT!!

Alas, claiming Oasis to be less talented than Kajagoogoo makes it hard for me to reply...

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs

hi lbangs I was wondering if you knew of guns n roses because they're quite overrated infact many fans think slash (gnr's guitarist) is the best in the world lol

Ha!

Honestly, most circles I run in really only focus on the band's debut, and I do dig that album. The rest, well... :)

Shalom, y'all!

L. Bangs