Listology Moderation Scheme
Submitted by jim on Tue, 12/09/2003 - 02:18
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The inevitable day has arrived. The time has come to try one of my half-baked moderation schemes. Here's the way it works. Nothing has changed for all but a few of you. You are considered to be "established" users. New users will be subject to a moderation period to make sure they're not abusive. During this time when a new user posts he/she will see this message:
Sadly, due to a few bad apples (or one bad apple disguised as several bad apples), Listology is moderated at the moment. Fear not, moderation is painless and just checks that you conform to our fairly lenient etiquette guidelines. Your post will be approved as soon as possible. Sadly I am but one man, so please be patient with me. Once you've been around for awhile your posts will be approved automatically. Very sorry for the inconvenience! Oh, you can continue to post other stuff while you're waiting. I'll just moderate it all at once.
After a user gets settled in, I'll flip a switch and he/she won't be subject to moderation any more.
This is just a trial for now, and I may lift it or change it in the future, depending on feedback and how it goes.
Thoughts?
Smart move. I think it'll work very well. No more 'blunder' lists will be a good thing.
Thanks! I was pretty sad that it finally came to this, as I coded away into the wee hours, but today I feel better about it. I did hear a very well-articulated argument against this idea that I'm hoping will be reposted here. It'll be interesting to see if this discourages new users or not.
I'm going to assume you're talking about me. If so, here was what I e-mailed Jim yesterday. What do the rest of you think?
My first e-mail contained the words: "Please don't do that moderation quite yet. I think it would really annoy, and likely scare off, new members from joining, if you imposed something like that."
Jim responded saying he was still probably going to do it, as well as, "I think I can swing it such that I only scare off a small percentage of newcomers, and mostly the folks that would have been drive-bys anyway." I responded again by saying:
"I believe the system of moderation that you chose was to filter new users' posts, correct? So you would have to review every post before it is submitted on the site, for all users arriving at the site for the first few months? No offense, but I think this system would mis-identify the problem. We Listology users are big boys and girls; it's not that our innocent eyes cannot withstand seeing hostile posts. We just don't want hostile people around the site, annoying us. The constant presence of belligerent people would create an unpleasant Listology environment. It's not like we're kids who can't take seeing R-rated movies (BTW, my 17th birthday is tomorrow! [Author's Note: It's today]).
I don't think you really need to spend your time preventing the Listology community from seeing hostile words. The vast majority of the posts are perfectly peaceful anyway. I suggest that, instead of putting new users on a period of filtering, you just keep an eye on them, and don't take any crap. If they seem to take antagonistic stances, give them a warning. If they continue to do so, simply cancel their account. This will punish only those who deserve it rather than all new members.
[One paragraph edited out.]
And here I am talking about the recent meanness around Listology as if it's so widespread. Really, we have a generally peaceable environment on the site. It's one thing I love about Listology. [Minor edits] Although it only took one bad egg to cause animosity, I'm so glad that most people accepted me right away on Listology. When you told me you liked my 10 funny movie scenes list and my funniest movies in each decade series, that really meant a lot to me [Author's Note: These were the first lists I posed on this site. The post of Jim's to which I am referring can be found here - it's the first post in the discussion]. If you had instead informed me that all my posts and lists had to go through a filter before they appeared on the site, I might've been a little more wary.
Well, you maintain this wonderful site and you are free to handle the problem as you wish. But I hope you consider what I've said."
I think I agree with AJ. If the moderation was in place when Nathaniel first told me about Listology, I doubt I ever would have posted. Maybe that's just me, but if I knew that someone was going to be reading my every word (which I know you must do anyway, Jim, but this is different) and evaluating it before it appeared on the site, I probably never would have gotten an account.
While I don't think AJ's method is perfect, I don't have any better ideas right now. But it's your site, Jim, and I respect your decision. I'll still be here no matter how you choose to handle the issue.
AJ: it was you. :-) Thanks for reposting so we can all discuss!
AJ and Geek: Well I'm certainly glad you're both going to stick around! It does weigh heavy on my mind that if this system were in place earlier neither of you might be here, though.
Does it help or hurt that the moderation isn't apparent until after your first post? After all, by then you've already made the mental commitment to participate.
Actually, I think it might be slightly underhanded of me to not announce the moderation up front, but I really do think this form of moderation is about as benign as you get, and I want folks to make that first decision as to whether or not they want to play without worrying about that. I dunno, I still deliberate this point in my mind.
At the very least, one of the things I'll probably do this winter is make it possible to easily toggle moderation on and off. So when things are good, everybody just posts. When things get ugly, I turn moderation on for awhile.
Of course, if I suddenly find new member participation has dropped through the floor I'll have to think of something else, but I'm afraid there are no easy answers. I've seen what happens to unmoderated popular boards, and it's almost always ugly. The signal to noise ratio is intolerable.
I agree, I think it was one bad apple in many disguises.
I just noticed something,my name is on the Hall of fame twice once under oldtimer and once under newcomer,hopefully i do not have a doppleganger.
:-) Nope, you've just been a busy bee. You're eligible to appear in the newcomers list for 3 months, but you didn't need that long to crack the old-timers list. Looks like I should rename it to something other than old-timers!
I feel about moderation on forums the same way most people probably, if pressed, admit to feeling about taxes. I hate it, and (at least now), I have to admit that is probably necessary.
As the site grows, we will attract more and more people who will simply wish to insult folks and waste time and space. I believe I was maybe the first person to be attacked like this, and even then, I wasn't for moderation. One person posting a few lists and leaving, however, is quite different from folks who seem to want trouble (for reasons I frankly am still quite clueless about) and seem intent on staying.
I support Jim, who does a hell of a job with the site, and now, I reluctantly support his decision also. His proposed policy isn't oppresive, and it is still very loose and lenient compared to many. I hate moderation, but I fear we need a little. That's all this is - very little.
Feel free, of course, to disagree. I'll just see to it that Jim deletes your posts. (REALLY bad joke; I'm only kidding!)
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
"Feel free, of course, to disagree. I'll just see to it that Jim deletes your posts."
hahahahahahaha
Moderation and taxes. Very apt comparison.
Someday you won't even have to ask me to delete stuff. I've built it into the system so I can make other folks moderators. We can have a race to see who the power corrupts first. :-)
Jim, you're doing a great job, and a somewhat thankless one too. Moderation can be a good thing, and it shouldn't be taken as censorship. If there are some people who have abused this site, then they should no longer be welcomed here. But I'm pretty sure that newcomers who share in our enthusiasm for this site and want to express their opinions won't mind sitting through a "probation" period of sorts. It'll be well worth it.
Now...if we could only block newcomers who insist on subjecting us to their opinion that "The Matrix" is the greatest film ever made... :)
Thanks very much! I really do hope the probation period isn't too much of a disincentive, but I'll be keeping an eye on newcomer participation.
But wait, The Matrix ISN'T the greatest film ever made? For God's sake man, what is then!? I must get out to see this wondrous marvel post-haste. :-)
Jim, I had a Listology format request and wasn't sure where else to post it.
Would it be at all possible to make the "My Content" page look a little more like the page I see when I click on my profile? I'm particularly thinking of the endorsed users, because one thing I miss about the Hall of Fame is that it gave me easy access to the most prolific people. This way simply by going to my content, I could click on anyone I've endorsed to get to their profile, which saves a lazy bum like me from having to go through the Member Directory.
I was also hoping to display what I've written on my profile as well as the picture on the My Content page, so I can be constantly reminded what it looks like whenever I go to my content, and remember to keep things fresh and/or updated.
Would this be possible? Either way, thanks very much, Jim!
I just do a google search for AJDaGreat Listology or lbangs Listology and the page I'm looking for is always the top result. The member directory is a slow way to find anybody.
I'll give that a look, AJ. Sorry if it takes awhile, kinda busy these days.
Thanks Jim!
Alrighty AJ, see if that fits the bill.
Yay! Thank you, Jim!
Thanks!
great idea jim, when i first joined it didn't affect me at all. New users should learn that you have to be serious about using the site before you can get your messages and polls etc instantly posted. thanks, Storm
Cool, thanks for the feedback, and welcome aboard!
This is a good thing.
Maybe it's just me, but when the moderation thing was lifted for me, I felt like I had actually done something special to deserve that. I didn't know what I'd done, but I felt like that.
But maybe I'm just stupid :)
Ah, the advantages of a mysterious process. Glad to have you aboard!
Thanks.!